River Tyne-Bywell 2008 Season

[al44]

I'm not too surprised that April is sold out as it is, in my opinion, the best month for Bywell.

The back end fishing in the last two seasons has been quite poor netted against the fishing effort put in, and I'm not just comparing that to 2004 as that was a bit of a surprising year fish wise. The last two back ends when we've had good water heights the fish have just been passing through, frustrating to say the least, but even more so if this pattern carries on when you're paying £323 per day.

Will I miss fishing this beat?........yes, but mainly for the spring fishing.

[zephead]

It's being let ,as they,refer to it,on a"Tweed"-style system for 6 days.

There was talk of a "limited" 4 rod syndicate fishing the Sunday which as yet has failed to materialise in t't literature.

Pity the poor sod with a back-end kipper chasing week who has had his pool raked on a Sunday teatime if that is brought in.

ZH

[zephead]

AL44

have you fished the Riding Mill "Fish Pass" pool from the Styford side?

This,when it's right,is Tyne Spring fishing par excellence and its a shame there is not a reciprocal arrangement for this pool.

Regards

ZH

[al44]

Zep

No I've never fished it, but to be quite honest you only seem to see the Styford crew fishing that pool in the back end. Don't think I've ever seen anyone there in the spring.

I believe they prefer the pool at the very top of their beat, can't remember it's name.

[zephead]

Its a 'hoor of a wade but when I used to fish it in the days before it was syndicated as a day rods it was fantastic.A mate had fish of 7,13 and 23lbs off it one day in late March and the sight of large creamy bellied spring fish cresting the choppy waves at close quarters was a sight for sore eyes.

Its a serious temperature trap to spring fish and hard weather really brings them on-wonder if the Bywell ghilie will take his rods out from the side a little in a boat so as to get a cast at them.

Given the price of Tyne fishing their is no little irony it's fished by a GLE (Greatest Living Englishman) in Mr Botham and his mate from Who Wants to be a Millionare.

ZH

[al44]

Funnily enough I've also seen Mr Botham on the Styford bank, throwing metalwork for the back enders.

[tyneandrew]

It is clearly one of a number of areas on the river that is a major holding barrier to fish.

Fhis pass? - 'fish block' would be more apt

[tynetraveller]

talking of Tarrant, look what he caught last week on a sunray shadow..

[tynespeycaster]

zephead said:

Maybe it' s just the unfortunate price the average Tyne angler is going to to pay for years of a Government subsidised hatchery,

ZH.

Come on ZH, get the facts right!

What subsidy? The hatchery was only built to offset the lost spawning grounds at Kielder dam, 95% of it's running cost is paid for by the water company who insisted on building the 'white elephant' in the first place.

Local Tyne anglers were loyally paying for all those years when there was nowt to catch, have paid levies/contributions to net buyouts etc, just to be eventually priced off the water, maybe.

Agree with most of your other points though

[zephead]

TSC,

I note and agree with your piont re the hatchery.

My point about the hatchery,which I should have clarified properly,is that there is a perception from most anglers that fish elsewhere that the Tyne has a run of salmon that arrive on cue,come rain hail or shine,every season,in large numbers due to the hatchery,which is paid for out of the public purse and licence fees etc,as it's exploits have been trumpeted to death in the monthly Bywell and BR Hall of Fame in T&S.

I've chucked my overage in to a levy contribution before now as well,willingly I might add,in the face of an estate asking for it when the concept of "commercial risk" and "natural resource" were clearly missing from their vocabulary and their only overhead relating to the fishery is an agents fee for re-letting once every 5 years.

Its a real shame that the letting strategy at Bywell may well drive loyal and longstanding Tyne fishers off the water but if it means "fly only" fishing pre-June 16th with a move to possibly restoring the ability to take the odd regulated springer (as IMHO the Tyne needs to be reviewed as a special case under,lets not forget,what was an EA 5 yearly rolling experiment)so much the better.

It might save quite a few poorer quality fish being nailed at the back end as well as a number of w/c June 17th summer fish being nailed as without doubt for many anglers governed by and EA licence,the season begins on June 17th.

ZH

[rpsalmon]

The people who manage Bywell don't seem to be the only people on the Tyne system who wish to charge high prices. There are a couple of owners on the Tyne who also fish on the Tweed, Dee & Spey, but they don't understand how a small river like the Tyne, which has different and temperamental fishing conditions, can't be run exactly like the better rivers in Scotland. But they are certainly going to give a go at charging as much as the Tweed. Tyne anglers beware! Your fishing will disappear because of a few idiots with too much money and not the sense to realise the Tyne isn't as good as Scottish rivers.

[al44]

Rp

You are absolutely correct in that this will have a knock on effect elsewhere on the Tyne system. I have heard of mixed reaction from some owners but in the main it looks like it will end up increasing prices.

One thing to bear in mind is that the Tyne, in spite of the declared catches, does not give up it's salmon quite as easily as some of the prime Scottish rivers. The Tyne has many club stretches, fished by some very good anglers who know the water well and are successful as a result. Replace these with money laden tourists and let's see what happens to the catch rate per mile, gillie or no gillie. People associate high prices with almost guaranteed catches, but if/when this does not happen will demand remain, to the extent that prices can stay high? Only time will tell.

At the end of the day, the Tyne is not the Tweed.

[rpsalmon]

The posting I made in relation to the Tyne stemmed from a conversation with two of your Land owners, they have little understanding of salmon fishing and have crazy ideas, they are completely mad and have been driven to this state through a mad and insatiable greed. From the information they gave, it is clear they have solid plans and contingencies to exploit their fishing beyond any reasonable or logical basis. I left their company when the conversation became completely stupid, this was the result of they and two Russian anglers starting to talk stupid numbers and prices. From the conversation it is apparent they are not alone among land owners on the Tyne.

[salmonking]

I bet theyr'e geordies ;D ;D ;D ;D

[al44]

RP

I'm afraid my curiosity has got the better of me...........

Whilst this may be deemed to be none of my business, how did you end up in conversation with to two Tyne landowners, with little idea of salmon fishng, and two Russian anglers?

Almost sounds like the start of a film, horror one potentially!

[rpsalmon]

They were salmon fishing on the next beat. As nobody was catching any salmon it was one of those occasions where we met and had a chat, they talked about the massive runs on the Tyne (it is so good they were in Scotland!) and their plans for their beats, the Russians saw us talking (or did they think there was a queue and with old habits thought they'd better join it) and came over to chat. The Russians (dripping serious money) lapped up all their nonsense and were talking serious money in order get some "traditional ye olde type English salmon fishing", presumably so they could brag to their other filthy rich friends! When there is one set of idiots you've got a problem, with two lots you may well have a disaster. With these type of Russians, the only difference between 100,000 and 1,000,000 is a few extra strokes of ink. If the concept of owning or renting ye olde type salmon fishing still appeals next week then you may have trouble.

[zephead]

I think that with Tyne fishing we are at the start of a very interesting bubble.

Whilst there will no doubt be some "estates" following suit and Bywell-ising some of their fishing,there are still many beats that are not owned by landed estates and are controlled by farmers who are canny enough to still keep taking a steady rent from a club,or more likely syndicate in future,as they are keen to see familiar faces on their land and I'm sure don't want the aggro of employing ghillie's,putting up huts and letting every Inland Revenue inspector know what the likely financial return from their beat is!

The fact is that a "blue sky" expectation of 2 salmon for £3k all in week at the back end at Bywell is going to wear paper thin with experienced anglers and the corporate bravado displayed by those who have weighed-in and taken fishing this year will evaporate like the spring run in a big flood after three/four years.It is not easy fishing in a big water,the wading can be trappy and it needs ability to control a long sunk line.I wouldn't go near it with anything less than a stiff 16 footer so I can control the fly and hang it and so it can handle a sunk line and big fly-not neccessarily your average "genteel" salmon fishers idea of a £330 quid day carpet slipper day once a gale fresh off the top of Stagshaw with a bit of sleet up its arse for added spice gets up.

Whether it is the firms brass or my own,I just wouldn't waste it on such over-priced fishing and once retruns drop to true fly-caught,non-local angler levels they will cleave a good couple of hundred fish off the currently erroneously posted returns(and by erroneous they are not truly reflective of angling effort as it is far higher than the 8 syndicate rods due to the "day ticket"sales that go on).

The only hope to get them re-booted could be fishing water from a boat that was previously untouched but I hardly think that will be likley to get returns to a level to what those rods think they have paid for.

This will have a knock-on on lettings/pricing sure as eggs is eggs and I think that many of the cannier landowners will be keeping a weather eye on the situation before the diggers are in putting the tracks and the huts in to their beats as a couple of average back ends(and why no 5 year average please in the promo literature) will have them hoping for good weekly returns on Fish Tyne so they can shift un-let rods at short notice.

In addition,competition is stiff from undoubted Tweed beats in September and October and early November who are more competitively priced and who don't have to put up with the vagaries of Kielder releases as well as equinoctal rain fits.If every decent Tyne system beat were to be made available for weekly/daily lets the glut of fishing would knacker the pricing and I maintain that many riparian owners would prefer a steady income stream.

I'd be worried if I was a Nith,Eden,Annan,Esk angler as I would think that many beats there are looking across the hill and rubbing their hands as they have better water and are able to still offer good fresh fish in November when many Tyne fish I have caught from mid-September onwards have frankly been of poor quality-especially on the river below Hexham as the solid fresh fish seem to be up the North and South rivers like a flash on a decent water with my only decent October fish being big greybacks right at the death of the season in spud yakking week.


I agree with RPS that there will be some who jump on the bandwagon as it only take two idiots to make a market and there are plenty of desperately uninformed anglers about when it comes to leasing fishing and getting a chance of a proper return in terms of fish on the bank and enjoyment,scenery,etc and plety of owners to take their cash.

From a personal perspective the removal of Toby chucking at spring fish which have to be returned if more beats were taken private and become fly only is an absolute Godsend and is why more regulation,if the current 5 year rolling C&R rules stay in place,that will occur on private "ghillied" beats can only benefit spring stocks.Indeed,if the rule is removed the regulation of spring returns on a Tweed style system would be easier to enforce than on say club waters which are somewhat less regulated and more open to "bleeders" etc (and that's not a personal attack on Tyne club anglers before anyone jumps up and gets upset!)

That said I think the spring fishing is good value,if not brilliant,and a springer is worth ten back end fish IMHO.

Very interested in others even more informed views on what is a touchy subject for lots of loyal Tyne anglers who have put in a lot of hard work to get their fish over the years.

ZH

[Tyne Angler]

www.fishtyne.com/index.php?id=2

[f999]

I have just seen the posting with a link to Allendale Estates or fish tyne site. This is after posting a new topic on the Tyne in the General Forum.

First I would say that I don't believe the catch figures for one second, and the average catch figures are misleading. Also having fished below Bywell Bridge for years I know it to be crap-you don't catch fish until mid Sept because for three weeks in the Autumn it can fish as a third rate Tyne beat, if it is hammered you will pick up some fish. The description of the beats is laughable, what about the bits you can't access or fish? There is one "named" pool that is famous for not producing fish! Since they have also hired a Dee Ghillie I have to wonder if they are on the same planet as the rest of us.

Since according to their website "thanks to sterling efforts by the Tyne Rivers Trust, migratory runs of Salmon, Grilse and Sea Trout have been impressive in both quality (fish of 20lbs+ are regularly caught) and quantity." Since the Tyne Rivers Trust has done nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, I know that they and their claims are just public relations garbage.

Their web site even states "In a normal year, Kielder lets down water regularly, which encourages runs in even the driest months. It is a true saying on Tyne-side “if there’s water, there are fish at any time of the year in the Tyne”."
Well what is a normal year? I've forgotten how many times we didn't get normal water. And I've never heard anyone, absolutely anyone say "if there’s water, there are fish at any time of the year in the Tyne" and I think this is basically because it isn't true and think this is more public relations nonsense. Where have these fish been in the last few months? Well one things for sure, they haven't been at Bywell!!!

[tyneandrew]

If you look at the lower pool names (below the bridge) then you will soon revert to these names:

Gullet: 'On a wing of a prayer'
Two Streams: 'Fcuked up piece of water and boring'
Merryshields: 'Wholly unproductive (watch out for being shot at)'
The Haugh: 'Don't fcuking bother'