Fluorocarbon vs. Maxima ???

[wingers]

I've seen in other places that there is a lot of comment on fluorocarbon vs. Maxima...

I've recently started salmon fishing, and coming from a background of course fishing where I used nothing but maxima, I'm intrigued to hear your comments.

Is fluoro really stronger than maxima...

John

[ar]

See here:
salmosalar.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=tackleroom&action=display&thread=1185137578

[sagecaster]

In my view they are fundamentally different.

In the lab depending on the manufactured fluro you use for its diameter fluro is much stronger than maxima. It has the same refractive index as water so it's virtually invisible in water.

The downside is that it is more fragile, any surface damage to fluro hugely compromises the breaking strain, a small graze can cause it to snap like cotton.

Knotting can be tricky too, fluro cannot stand the strangulation effect within a knot as well as nylon.

Seagar is the best fluro for Salmon fishing, its very abrasive resistant and thanks to high breaking strain/ diameter relationship you can fish the same diameter as maxima and get a much higher bs. Eg 13lb Seagar = 8lb maxima diameter.

Experiment with knots first before you use it, tucked turle, surgeons, water and tucked half blood all work.

It took me a while to learn to get the best from it, i now use nothing else.

[castlikeaghille]

sagecaster said:

In my view they are fundamentally different.

In the lab depending on the manufactured fluro you use for its diameter fluro is much stronger than maxima. It has the same refractive index as water so it's virtually invisible in water.

The downside is that it is more fragile, any surface damage to fluro hugely compromises the breaking strain, a small graze can cause it to snap like cotton.

Knotting can be tricky too, fluro cannot stand the strangulation effect within a knot as well as nylon.

Seagar is the best fluro for Salmon fishing, its very abrasive resistant and thanks to high breaking strain/ diameter relationship you can fish the same diameter as maxima and get a much higher bs. Eg 13lb Seagar = 8lb maxima diameter.

Experiment with knots first before you use it, tucked turle, surgeons, water and tucked half blood all work.

It took me a while to learn to get the best from it, i now use nothing else.

I'd agree with all that except the very faster sinking quality that makes it ideal for wet fly on the floating line (no skating flies for us) makes it sub-optimal if you are fishing a hitched or dry fly, in which case copolymer is much better (same principle as used in trout fishing).

Regards

CLaG

[sagecaster]

castlikeaghille said:

I'd agree with all that except the very faster sinking quality that makes it ideal for wet fly on the floating line (no skating flies for us) makes it sub-optimal if you are fishing a hitched or dry fly, in which case copolymer is much better (same principle as used in trout fishing).

Regards

CLaG

ClaG

Good point, I knew it was heavier and have tended to use nylon on "Bombers" etc.

Have tried Copolymer and not confident using it, what brand and b/s do you recommend?

[splash]

sagecaster said:

castlikeaghille said:

I'd agree with all that except the very faster sinking quality that makes it ideal for wet fly on the floating line (no skating flies for us) makes it sub-optimal if you are fishing a hitched or dry fly, in which case copolymer is much better (same principle as used in trout fishing).

Regards

CLaG

ClaG

Good point, I knew it was heavier and have tended to use nylon on "Bombers" etc.

Have tried Copolymer and not confident using it, what brand and b/s do you recommend?

If you can find it Damyl Tectan is an excellent copolymer with a very high knot strength. Cabela's stock it but it occasionally pops up in UK shops; the WROC had a stock last year. Stroft is also excellent and widely available but is softer and quite shiny so requires a bit of work with your degreaser. Good old Drennan double strength is also good

cheers

Splash

[minitube]

Fluocarbon seems to catch more fish in my opinion. I think factory made tapered leaders are best, Orvis Mirage being what I use most, sometimes Riverge. Fluo is stiffer and therefore great for turning over bottle tubes or brass tubes, cut the tapered leader to the right diameter so that it has command over the weight of the fly. Even heavy diameters of fluo do not seem to adversely affect the fish taking at all.

[castlikeaghille]

splash said:

sagecaster said:

ClaG

Good point, I knew it was heavier and have tended to use nylon on "Bombers" etc.

Have tried Copolymer and not confident using it, what brand and b/s do you recommend?

If you can find it Damyl Tectan is an excellent copolymer with a very high knot strength. Cabela's stock it but it occasionally pops up in UK shops; the WROC had a stock last year. Stroft is also excellent and widely available but is softer and quite shiny so requires a bit of work with your degreaser. Good old Drennan double strength is also good

cheers

Splash

I use Hardy Tapered Copolymer Leaders down to a 12lbs point with 1.5 mm riverge leader rings, and use a spool of 10lbs Hardy tippet. I don't know who makes it for Hardy - bought my stuff from Sportfish in this instance. Don't know anything about the stuff Splash is recommending other than, as usual the colonials will probably be ten league boots ahead of Blighty on this sort of thing.

Regardeth

CLaG

[rpsalmon]

Maxima was outclassed by other monfilaments years ago, astonishingly the dark brown version is still used by people in low water! There is a place for mono and fluoro, there are many in double strength mono's that are useless and one or two that are fabulous. The knots on my Grand Max Riverge leaders have never come apart and have used the same ones for years. Use mono for heavy work with sunk line as I like a bit of give. Someone once mentioned that fluoro snapped with certain kinds of casting, never experienced this problem and can't remember who told me. Whichever I use, in order to make the leader material more natural looking I like to lightly stain the clear material either brown or green using tea or leaf, and also take off the "sheen".

[para1]

Dying mono, I wonder if you met the same bloke as me.
He dyed all his fly lines green, he was quite shocked when he seen me using a bright orange sink tip, he was kind enough to net a salmon for me about 30 mins later ;D
ps I still use brown Maxima and have done for as long as I can remember.

[ibm59]

para1 said:

ps I still use brown Maxima and have done for as long as I can remember.

Surprised you can remember anything after your daily gallon in the Fox. ;D ;D

[acw]

ibm59 said:

para1 said:

ps I still use brown Maxima and have done for as long as I can remember.

Surprised you can remember anything after your daily gallon in the Fox. ;D ;D

;DMaybe a new convert, ;D
must confees to occaisional use of the thick brown stuff with spring heavy tubes

[rpsalmon]

Dear "Para 1"
I also dye my fly lines but not all the same colour, some are dull brown, some dull dark green and I have one or two dull cream floaters I use in certain circumstances. None shine! If I owned a beat I would ban anyone from using such colours as yellow, orange, pink, red etc. There are quite a few of us about and I have dyed lines for a number of people. As long as they aren't too silly in the casting, presentation and fishing of their fly, I will sometimes take advantage of people who use such lines in low water and fish after them to catch the fish they woke up, moved or disturbed.
I'm also one of the many people who paint my rods with matt varnish in order to cut down on the number of salmon I spook!

[ibm59]

rpsalmon said:

If I owned a beat I would ban anyone from using such stupid colours as yellow, orange, pink, red etc.

I'd be careful using Para 1 and stupid in the same sentence.
The residents of Aden and various others not so far from home would agree. :-X
Watch out he doesn't drop in on you ! :-*

[rpsalmon]

Dear IBM59

Thank you for the comment, while I didn't call anyone stupid, from using the word stupid in a sentence it could be inferred that someone was stupid and therefore I believe that remark would fall foul of the rules of the web site.

I have therefore removed that word. However, I will state that I am unable to comprehend how an angler could possibly think that by allowing an unnatural object (orange, yellow, red fly line) of completely unnatural colour into the environment of the fish at the same time as a fly, that he/she is not reducing they're own and other anglers chances of tempting a fish.

[splash]

rpsalmon said:

Dear IBM59

Thank you for the comment, while I didn't call anyone stupid, from using the word stupid in a sentence it could be inferred that someone was stupid and therefore I believe that remark would fall foul of the rules of the web site.

I have therefore removed that word. However, I will state that I am unable to comprehend how an angler could possibly think that by allowing an unnatural object (orange, yellow, red fly line) of completely unnatural colour into the environment of the fish at the same time as a fly, that he/she is not reducing there own and others chances of tempting a fish.

RPS - If you consider he dynamics of salmon fishing then simple logic would suggest that dyeing your clear nylon a nice shade of green or brown should have a far more a deleterious impact of reducing the chance of tempting a fish in clear water than an orange flyline which will be several yards away from where the fly is fishing. This will be particularly true if you are fishing in a direct contact approach as described in Dr Fairchilds article. However, salmon do not always seem to be leader shy as is evidenced by the numbers caught on tarry rope, aka brown maxima, and bad casting and lack of watercraft in general will have a much greater impact on disturbing salmon than either leader material or fly line colour. You should read the previous edition of T&S and Dr Fairchilds first article where the issue of watercraft is covered in some detail.
Getting back to fly line colour, I have caught hundred's of trout on a bright orange flyline fishing nymphs and buzzers but I would not dream of using such a line for fishing dry flies on either river or stillwater. The issue here is that the line contrasts significantly against the skyline and is the fishes window when casting, however when its spending most of the time lying on the water such as in buzzer and indeed salmon fishing then this clearly ceases to be a such a significant issue

cheers

Splash



Splash

[para1]

rpsalmon said:

Dear "Para 1"
I also dye my fly lines but not all the same colour, some are dull brown, some dull dark green and I have one or two dull cream floaters I use in certain circumstances. None shine! If I owned a beat I would ban anyone from using such colours as yellow, orange, pink, red etc. There are quite a few of us about and I have dyed lines for a number of people. As long as they aren't too silly in the casting, presentation and fishing of their fly, I will sometimes take advantage of people who use such lines in low water and fish after them to catch the fish they woke up, moved or disturbed.
I'm also one of the many people who paint my rods with matt varnish in order to cut down on the number of salmon I spook!

Guess I won't be getting an invite to your beat then.
btw I use a "banana yellow line" for the dry fly, dosen't seem to bother the brownies.:-)

[rpsalmon]

Dear Splash
Firstly, I didn't state that I dyed my nylon, I said I lightly stained it. Therefore most of your logic is irrelevant.
Secondly, unless you have an old well greased light trout silk fly line then your fly line will "float" in the water and not upon it. Your line becomes part of the same environment as the fly and the colour can be seen clearly by the fish. When you fish down a pool for the second time, or someone follows down behind, the fish hasn't just seen your fly but has also seen your fly line that either floats overhead or by the fish. I would go on but you have already admitted to knowing the issues in relation to trout, so why not take advantage of them for salmon? As for bright fly lines flashing overhead....I won;t even start on that one.
Unless you know the exact position and depth of a salmon, and can stalk them, talking about the window becomes a bit of a generalisation. Take the example of fishing a straight line across the current, the fly line will invariably be seen by the salmon.
Green and brown are natural colours, as long as they are dark and dull, they won't scare the salmon so much or make them as wary. I actually did tests about 20 years ago, principally because I wasn't entirely satisfied by Goddard & Clarke's tests, the tests confirmed all fish were less scared of dark green and dark brown lines both in/on the water as well as in the air. Notice I mentioned all fish, because of course the minnows, trout and coarse fish in a river will be scared by the colour and disturbance of a fly line...and no fish ignores the danger signals sent by other fish in the area!
Having said that, in some conditions a light coloured floating fly lines can be vital in controlling a fly, I use one for such (a dull cream colour) in certain rapids when there is coloured water and the fish are stopping for short periods only.

[ibm59]

rpsalmon said:

is not reducing there own and others chances

Surely you're not going to let him away with that , Mr Gumm !

[para1]

Anybody remember the high viz Stren mono.
I have seen it used quite a lot in the past but not recently, the people using it said they could see exactly where there lure was when spinning.
I did see one lad land a fish on it tied directly to the lure, most others used a different hook length.