Proportion issues??

[clydebuilt]

Lo Lads,

Back at the vice after a few months away and I cant seem to get my winging mojo back at all.Dont know if these wings look too long.
Heres one I tied yesterday, does the top wing look too long for this style of fly? What about the underwings?
Dont be shy with the feedback either, I dont know what it is, maybe the yellow arctic fox is too short ?
Im sure your keen eyes will help me. Cheers Clydebuilt

[Sloggi]

You're right to consider the proportions of this fly. I suppose proportion is the most vital element to fly-tying. How often do we look at a fly and think "this doesn't look right" - 9 times out of 10 it's down to proportion.

My initial reaction was the hair is too long and too thick and hook look like it's about to collapse . Is the black hair bucktail? If so, I generally don't use this hair for wings on double hooks. If you build up hair, use something softer like A Fox or T/dog

[clydebuilt]

Cheers Sloggi, I know where your coming from.
I used Arctic fox for all the wings although it was just thinned it out by removing the fluffy keich first.
Its always the same with my tying, using too much winging material then thinking " that look too much"!!
I'll give it another go and see how I fare, less is more eh heheh
CHeers

[stu47]

Iff you are tying more than one layer,start with the first layer with a good bunch of hair just so it goes over the bend of the hook, the next one little longer and thinner then the last longer and thinner again,should do the trick

[sewinangler]

I agree with Sloggi; proportion is the key.

The wing on your fly, although designed to be long doesn't have have the proportion quite right.

The orange section is just a tad too long or if you prefer, the black is too short.

Ideally when building the wing, you need to create a sloping effect where one material is slightly longer than the other. You have done this with the transition from yellow to orange but it doesn't appear so when you have added the black. Whether this is because the black doesn't appear dense enough or not I don't know.

If it's because the materials you have aren't sufficiently long enough, initially try making the length of the first part of the underwing (yellow) shorter and then build from that. If it's not right at this stage, there's a possibility that it won't be right at completion. Try shortening the yellow underwing by half and then go from there.

[Sloggi]

sewinangler said:

I agree with Sloggi; proportion is the key.

The wing on your fly, although designed to be long doesn't have have the proportion quite right.

The orange section is just a tad too long or if you prefer, the black is too short.

Ideally when building the wing, you need to create a sloping effect where one material is slightly longer than the other. You have done this with the transition from yellow to orange but it doesn't appear so when you have added the black. Whether this is because the black doesn't appear dense enough or not I don't know.

If it's because the materials you have aren't sufficiently long enough, initially try making the length of the first part of the underwing (yellow) shorter and then build from that. If it's not right at this stage, there's a possibility that it won't be right at completion. Try shortening the yellow underwing by half and then go from there.

Agree completely

[clydebuilt]

Right cheers lads,

All good points taken on board here.

Keep your eyes peeled for MKII, I think I'll scalpel the wing as these bl00dy salar hooks are silly money!!

[macd]

Hi clydebuilt

leave more room for the head- ie stop the body further back.

if you then wind forward, you can mark the furthest point you will take the head. yes, extra turns, but it will help guide the shape of the head.

wind back to the body and build the wing as already suggested. tie in in each layer at a different point along the base of thread you have put down to for the head. this will help its final shape

all the material should be in by the time you reach the end of the thread base. A wee drop of varnish just to give added grip.


wind back, thinking of the shape of the head and whip finish.

happy tying

[tynetraveller]

I would also suggest that the whole fly is a little too far forward on the hook- I start my butt over the area between the barb and point. This gives the fly's body a gentle, natural curve. Other than that, the other posters have already covered the wing..

Cheers, Simon

[Sloggi]

tynetraveller said:

I start my butt over the area between the barb and point.
Cheers, Simon

Ouch

[stu47]

A couple pics to give you some more idea,good luck with your next ones

[clydebuilt]

Once again thank you all for the constructive criticism gents.

Its great to get this kind of feedback & I will take all these points onboard for my next attempt.

Cheers for the pics too stu, a picture can paint a 1000 words!!

CB

[clydebuilt]

Right gents,
Ignore the head please and I used the original body hence it still looks a little short.
Apart from that I think the wing looks better proportion wise (maybe a little too much orange!)
Heres hoping:

[sewinangler]

Clydebuilt,

That wing looks a hundred times better than the one in the first image you posted. Stu posted some excellent examples and they possibly helped you visualise what was said regarding proportion at the rear of the wing?

It is all about balance and different anglers have different views on how they like to 'see' their flies. I've fiddled with your image to try and show you what I mean:



There is another issue here however and one that has perplexed me on a number of occasions; the type of hook used. This can also have an effect on how your wing looks.

If you look at Stu's images, the straight shank of the hook he's used, does compliment the balance of the fly. I have had issues with the salar's in the past because the shank is short and the hook bend starts a long way forward.

Nevertheless, I think you've cracked it ;D Nice fly.

[clydebuilt]

Hi sewingangler,

Great picture to show the rear taper of the fox. I hope this thread is a useful tool for other to see aswell.

You mentioned the Salar hooks shank/bend and I think this also threw me a bit with the body length too. I think they do look good hooks but take a bit of getting used to when tying.

I normally prefer a shallower angle on my wings but I'm sure I can fiddle with that and get them a bit lower. However, once the fox hits the water then it does flatten down quite a bit in the current.

Right, can only imporve now eh......

Cheers
CB

[elwyman]

Fly looks fine to me CB.

I think salar hooks work particularly well with cascade & allys flies, the proportions just look right.

[stu47]

Sewinangler,Clydebuilt,i used a salar no7 hook for that it looks to be straighter because of how i tied the tag,gives it a bit more body,if you look at the step by step GRitchie does of his silver allys,shows you how to do this.Clydebuilt maybe a bit heavy on the orange,trial and error mate

[DAZ]

Nice post sewinangler.

I agree with what you have written in your post,especially the bit on anglers having different views on how they view the flies.This really is a personal thing and what I may consider a well tied fly others may not.

Much better second attempt clydebuilt,I am sure that would do the business,as I am also sure your first attempt would have.I don't think the fish are as critical about the flies as we are.As long has the fly is pleasing to your eye thats all that matters,because you will fish it with confidence,and "you will" catch fish on it.We all strive for perfection,and the perfectly tapered wing,but I honestly believe it is not the be all and end all of our flies.

Practice makes perfect as they say.

I am not saying this is the right way,but this how I build a wing on my own flies.


DAZ.

[mark]

I believe that there are two main points to remember with salmon flies. The first is that you want movement as it must appear to be alive.
The second is that it needs to appear almost translucent with the light showing through the materials.

For this to happen the right amount of material in the wing is the critical issue as well as the size proportions.

When I teach tying I usually get my students to select the amount of winging material they think they need. Then I get them to halve it and then halve it again and then start tying it on the hook.

The wing usually is about twice to two and a half times the lenth of the hook shank which is measured from just behind the eye to the bend of the hook.

The truth is however it is your fly. Tie it as you want.
Provided that you get the movement into it and it glows as the light can be seen through it from underneath because without being a prat and stating the obvious thats the way the salmon see's it you will be onto a winner.

Just one more point when I use flash in a fly I like it to be within the wing so that again it can be seen in the 'Glowing' from beneath the fly against the light.

Movement can be enhanced by tying the wing in post style.
Go to this link and see a post wing tube being tied. www.gwentanglingsociety.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=176&Itemid=46

Hope it helps.

[macd]

DAZ

that is a beautiful fly.

spill the beans then ;D