What constitutes a bleeder??

[sagecaster]

I have come across a few lame "bleeder" arguements over recent years as reason for administering the last rites to what I would judge as perfectly returnable fish.

Salmon have a very limited blood volume which means two things.
1. If they are bleeding fatally they will keel over almost instantly, there's no debate as the fish is dead in the water.
2. Conversely, because they have a limited blood supply, superficial bleeding around the tongue and mouth will naturally clot and stop bleeding very quickly given a chance, especially Springers, hence its my experience that nearly all bleeders are returnable.

What really concerns me:

Is there general ignorance as to what is a fatally bleeding fish? or Is it just a cover for knocking fish on the head?

[tayspringer]

Bleeding from the gills and it is humanely killed, mouth and it goes back

[salmonking]

As above....years ago we would kill bleeders(mouth)until more light was shed on this topic,i don't think there is enough emphasis on this subject.

[tynespeycaster]

Alan,

Will try, it is a pdf rather than a web link, I will look for the link on the EA site and try and post it.

Mike

Sorry wrong slot

[williegunn]

A salmon with a hook wound in the scissors and a twig down the back of it's throat.

[dunbar]

Sagecaster has hit the nail on the head. I have only witnessed one true 'bleeder'. A friend caught a fish which was bleeding quite heavily and it was almost dead when landed. Despite strenuous attempts to revive it, it had no chance and kept going belly up, and bleeding heavily. It was quite rightly (but regrettably) despatched quickly.

I think salmon are generally quite tough and many 'bleeders' can be returned successfully if one has patience and treats the fish with care.

[Bogyoch]

I have only caught one fish that I would term as a bleeder, and that was my first spring fish of last year. The fly was in its gill rakers and when I picked it up having unhooked it, I was covered in its blood, looking like someone from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. This fish would not have survived being returned and was duly despatched. Any normal mouth hooked fish, even with a bit of blood showing, will go back.

[para1]

If you knock it on the head because it's bleeding, then it certainly wont recover.

[juniorspey]

true, but some might say its better to put the fish to good use than put it back and see it float past 2 mins later

[sagecaster]

juniorspey said:

true, but some might say its better to put the fish to good use than put it back and see it float past 2 mins later

This argument matter of perspective, IMO a dead fish in the river is contributing, and will end up being a small but fundamental part of the food chain. On areas in the upper reaches of British Columbia, where logging has rendered rivers completely sterile of salmon, fishery biologists will dump tonnes and tonnes of dead salmon back into these rivers by helicopter. This reestablishes the food chain, they plant out eggs and hence kick start the salmon run again.

On one beat I fish on the Findhorn we are asked to leave dead and diseased fish where they lie for this particular reason. Unfortunately this also includes dead sheep, etc which if any of you know the Findhorn depending on the severity of the floods can be quite a common and stinking occurrence!!!

[salmonshrimp]

Over the years I've heard 2 different stories, make up your own minds but until I see proof otherwise I will certainly consider these thoughts if I have a bleeding fish in my hands.

Fish blood does not clot or it does not have an anti-clotting agent like ours.
If a fish starts bleeding does it slowly bleed to death.

Or if the blood starts to clot how does it stop.

Perhaps its better not to hook him in the first place

[williegunn]

dixie said:

Fish blood does not clot or it does not have an anti-clotting agent like ours.
If a fish starts bleeding does it slowly bleed to death.

Oh dear oh dear what rubbish, have you never caught a seal damaged fish?
Of course fish's blood clots.

[salmonshrimp]

Show us the evidence and if it does clot which I suspect it might does it stop clotting or does it fully coagulate.

[salmonshrimp]

williegunn said:

a seal damaged fish?

Not relevant there are no blood vessels in the surface flesh or the skin. Do you see any blood vessels in a salmon fillet

[williegunn]

dixie said:

Not relevant there are no blood vessels in the surface flesh or the skin. Do you see any blood vessels in a salmon fillet

What is the red stuff in this photo? I had always assumed it was blood.


Not the best photo but you should be able to see the granulated wound that was as deep as my thumb, but healed.

[salmonshrimp]

First picture proves nothing it is a recent wound nowhere near the heart and perhaps the fish would have died had it not been caught.

Second picture proves nothing either it is a flesh wound where there are no blood vessels.

Scientific evidence on the other hand would be difficult to argue against

[woodcockandsewin]

Hi Gents,

my first efforts on this forum.

Whilst there is a strong argument for a quick death in the obvious cases, why not tether the fish and leave it for a couple of hours. If it dies you have not wasted it, and if it survives, let her go. I suspect a huge percentage would live to achieve what nature intended.

Solomon would be proud!!

W&S

[zephead]

WG,

as moderator please send this fellow an Ivan Marks Knotless De Luxe model Keepnet and Gold Shafted Canal Camo Brolly as a bonus gift to first time posters.

Preferable to "tethering" methinks as presumably this could only be done thro the gills.

Nonetheless an interesting diagnostic approach to the bleeder conundrum we all face and possibly not without merit when collecting broodstock with a spinner.

Wilkommen am der Forum and keep posting,

ZH

[woodcockandsewin]

Danke ZH,

I agree that a knotless net, (or even a carp sack?) would be better, but probably don't fit in the pocket quite so well. I live in fear of catching a 65lb salmon and not being able to prove it, and so I have a tether in my pocket at all times, (made from an old fly line.)

It has been used on numerous occaisions, (except for the big one!!), and never had a casualty. With careful use, the fish suffers little more than a slight irritation. Some of these fish were fed on for several years.

Yours, still dreaming,

W&S

[zephead]

W&S,

Sounds top stuff.

We need action pictures now I've checked its not April 1st!

Regards

ZH