How much line you shoot with B&W Norway?

[robson]

I'm trying to learn proper speycast with long belly lines. One of my setups are Norway 15' 9-10 with a Carron 85' floater. The belly goes out quite easy, but I have found it difficult to shoot much running line with this combo. Of course it is cause of my bad technique, but it would be helpfully to know how others manage to cast with this rod.

When fishing, I use shooting heads and Scandinavian style rods only, but I promised myself at least try to learn to cast long belly lines. ;D

We had kind of a "Spey Clave" here in Finland last Saturday and Ian Gordon was there to demonstrate the Partridge products. I still can't understand how a man can do those loooong casts and tight loops and make it to look so easy. What a speycaster and a fine gentleman he is!

[robson]

Thanks springer,

I decided to buy this 85' Carron 'cause it works well even for shorter distances. But you might be right, that I still need 65'-75 floater to practice this shooting thing thought.

Best,
Matti

[macd]

springers right, practice makes perfect.

65' is ideal- 85' heads are ridiculous. I simply could not be bothered expending my energies for little return.

The selling of Speylines plays on our insecurities. The obsession with casting to infinity and beyond, is akin to the golfers driving to the green- but remember that in golf they say drive for show and putt for dough.

The subtext of the marketing of speylines is that only girls use heads of less than 75’ and the real men use 85’ heads.

I would dearly like to know just how many anglers, plagued with self-doubt, have fallen for this and have spent their hard earned cash on a head length that just doesn’t suit.

I have seen plenty of fishers who struggle manfully with these head lengths because they dont want to buy a line which the ads suggests is for novices. Nonsense.



Ross

[tynetraveller]

There is no one answer to your question, but if you are spey casting the whole head then you are making a cast of thirty yards( allowing for leader) which is a decent line anyway. How much running line you can shoot in addition is just a challenge for you.

If you are having to shoot line to get the whole belly out, then I would suggest you make some additional marks on the line with a marker pen, say at 10 and twenty feet into the head, so that you can practice spey casting with 65 and 75 feet of line outside the rod tip, until you can comfortably control the anchor point and D-loop with the full head outside the rod. Once that is achieved, it is simply a case of how much line you can shoot with practice.

With a Carron 85 footer, if you can get up to shooting 30 ft of running line that is a forty yard cast, which is a pretty long line for real fishing.. and is as much running line as I am comfortable with managing in the river, so is what I use as my maximum distance unless there is a fish just out of range! Have fun!

[robson]

Thanks for your opinions macd and tynetraveller,

Like I told, I don't fish with long belly, it is just for casting. Maybe one day in the future I can afford a trip to Scotland and use long floating lines instead of shooting heads.
I go fishing just a couple of days in a month (I don't live near salmon river), and go a lot more often practicing. So Carron floater is in use.

It is a good advice to mark the line. I will do that, since the running line is a same color as the belly, I have to mark the 85' anyway.

[williegunn]

macd said:

springers right, practice makes perfect.

65' is ideal- 85' heads are ridiculous. I simply could not be bothered expending my energies for little return.

Ross

On a 16ft rod the Carron 85 is very usable, especially on the Lower Spey or Ness. Good technique is needed but it saves all that stripping and shooting.

65 ft heads are very usuful on lesser rivers

[macd]

williegunn said:

macd said:

springers right, practice makes perfect.

65' is ideal- 85' heads are ridiculous. I simply could not be bothered expending my energies for little return.

Ross

On a 16ft rod the Carron 85 is very usable, especially on the Lower Spey or Ness. Good technique is needed but it saves all that stripping and shooting.

65 ft heads are very usuful on lesser rivers

Not sure usable cuts it for me. Hardly a glowing endorsement.

There again, maybe I just like stripping...... )

Trust me (while I have never had the good fortune to fish the lower spey a 65' head and a 15ft rod are just fine on the Ness

Lesser rivers

[kercock]

Yesterday I tried out the 65 head with my 16footer and was pleasantly surprised with the result.For teaching,I reckon a Mach 2 or a windcutter is the answer,both shorter heads and much easier to cast. In my opinion too many people get a fixation on casting and forget that we should in fact be fishing ! Lets face reality, years back ,all lines were 27yds long,pretty much,do we catch more fish these days with the more than double length lines,I don't think so. We just went fishing !

[robson]

I can't do fishing as much as I want. So I practice casting. And I think it is worth to learn it properly.
When fishing, I concentrate fishing only and forget the distance thing.

[storlaks]

Couldn't agree more with the above. 60-70ft head lenghts are ideal for most fishing situations. Not all beats have pools with perfect wading and endless space behind you, so shorter heads allow you to fish in all situations and still cover the water.

Ever tried standing on an uneven high bank trying to cast an 85ft head .......not ideal at all!

Had a good example of fishing versus casting the other week when fishing Orton on Spey. My friend, who is not a long caster at all, had 4 in 2 days whereas I blanked for 5. I was covering much more water than he was, but obviously he was "fishing" better than I...or maybe he was just in the right place at right time ((-:

[williegunn]

What is all this crap about space behind the caster? This is what Spey casting is all about.

A 65ft head on a 16 ft rod is too short and does not anchor properly.

Usable, easy to use. The 85 ft head is one of the best Carron lines they make.........is that a better endorsement.

I would never teach with a windcutter ......just a 40 gramme Toby, specialist line for smaller, lesser rivers.

The anglers on the Ness have been splicing lines together since the 60s to produce long bellied lines to cast easily without stripping and shooting.

[macd]

williegunn said:

What is all this crap about space behind the caster? This is what Spey casting is all about.

A 65ft head on a 16 ft rod is too short and does not anchor properly.

Usable, easy to use. The 85 ft head is one of the best Carron lines they make.........is that a better endorsement.

I would never teach with a windcutter ......just a 40 gramme Toby, specialist line for smaller, lesser rivers.

The anglers on the Ness have been splicing lines together since the 60s to produce long bellied lines to cast easily without stripping and shooting.

I agree that a 65' head would not suit a 16' rod; equally a 85' head on a 15', which is the main rod for a lot of guys, is too much like hard work.

Usable doesnt mean easy to use- it just means that the item in question can be used or is fit to use.

Just to help untwist your knickers, wasnt having a pop at carron lines, but im sure they will be delighted with your staunch defence.

The anglers on the Ness have been splicing lines together since the 60s to produce long bellied lines to cast easily without stripping and shooting

Very true, but so what?

[williegunn]

springer said:

Malcolm,



I know from my own experience Simon Gawesworth, Andy Murray and Eoin Fairgrieve to name just three world renowned casters and instructors that advocate the use of head lengths like the Windcutter for teaching. .

Well they would Simon G is a Rio man, Eoin Fairgrieve is Loop and Andy Murray, Hardy none of whom produce a long belly line worth casting.

Casting a long belly line requires a different technique seldon seen south of Grantown.

springer said:

Head lengths of between 4 and 5 times the rod length are in my opinion the optimum for every day fishing and enable a wide variety of casts to be performed easily.

my simple maths suggest 5 x16 =80 so an 85 ft head is pretty close.

[williegunn]

macd said:

The anglers on the Ness have been splicing lines together since the 60s to produce long bellied lines to cast easily without stripping and shooting

Very true, but so what?

Well if you can remember back to the 60s the lines were 27 yds long, even the average Ness casters had the backing up the rod and were having to strip and shoot, in an effort to make life easy Charlie MacKenzie et al spliced lines together to save faffing aboput stripping and shooting.

[storlaks]

Horse for courses and all that....
Still, 85ft heads on the Ness are fine. I used the Lee Wulff 80ft head, with a 5ft poly, for a longtime at Ness-side. However, for beginners and everyday/everysituation fishing 85ft is too long IMO.

16ft rods in the summertime are overkill anyway. takes the fun out of playing a fish...especially a grilse.

[williegunn]

storlaks said:

16ft rods in the summertime are overkill anyway. takes the fun out of playing a fish...especially a grilse.

Sorry I did not read the sub-title How much line you shoot with B&W Norway? (in the summer time)

[Fruin]

Surely, there is no optimum head length for every situation and every casters ability.
If you feel comfortable using an 85' spey line, then cast away and enjoy your fishing. Likewise, if you are more comfortable with a windcutter or a shooting head, then carry on and enjoy your fishing.
There is only one wrong line to use, and that is a line that does not suit your ability/casting style, the situation on the river, or does not match the rod you are using. All this, as I have found out from bitter experience, will ruin your days fishing. Using the wrong line for you is more likely to alter your casting style for the worse over the course of a fishing trip, than using any particular head length.
To slate somebody for the type of line they use is just bullish nonsense.
I know a few a people who catch a lot of fish using only single handed rods. While it true that they are limited in the water they can fish, they sometimes catch more fish than very experienced spey casters. However, they must have it all wrong because they aren't even speycasting ;D

[macd]

williegunn said:

macd said:

The anglers on the Ness have been splicing lines together since the 60s to produce long bellied lines to cast easily without stripping and shooting

Very true, but so what?

Well if you can remember back to the 60s the lines were 27 yds long, even the average Ness casters had the backing up the rod and were having to strip and shoot, in an effort to make life easy Charlie MacKenzie et al spliced lines together to save faffing aboput stripping and shooting.

I knew that they spliced lines, but not that the lines were 27yds.
I can see how having to strip and shoot the backing would be hellish.

But surely the inconvience of handling the backing was more
of a catalyst for these innovations, than a simple dislike of shooting line.

[Tyne Angler]

springer said:

Malcolm,

I fully appreciate your sentiments about spey casting being a means to cast with little space behind but I feel it is unrealistic to suggest that an 85' head line would be usable in these circumstances that Storlacks has described. To get all that line into an efficient d-loop and anchor the last yard or two somewhere near a rod length out from you would need at least 14yds of space behind you. Lines of the 85' type are much better suited to open water, in tight situations a shorter head makes this much more possible.

Alan

Would you still require at least 14yrds clearance behind you if your casting at an angle of 45deg down stream ?

[tyneandrew]

You can still do a short cast with a long belly line though, you don't need the full head out to use the line?