Ok!! Lets talk about the take?

[salmao]

I have read in this forum about the worm kind of take and I would like to know something about the way the salmon takes our flies.

[betanut]

Hold on would be my first quip
In truth Salmon can be every bit as fickle as trout - some take so savagely that your arm gets pulled out of its socket but others are incredibly gentle, nothing more than a gradual draw away of line Whilst there is no happy medium in how a fish takes what you do as an angler does, my experience, make more of a difference. IMHO it would be reasonable to say that you must not strike when you feel the take but wait, wait, wait and tighten on the fish - a bit like I used to do when I wormed spate rivers. Odd that ........................ ;D
Mind you - someone will probably have a different view ;D

[say]

When fishing a sinking line, I grip the line as soon as I feel the fish. Once I feel the full weight, it's at this point I lift into the fish.

When fishing floating line, I like to give the fish a yard or so before lifting into a fish.

I should also point out, I have tried using a loop of line etc but I now always fish off the reel.

SAY

[hornet]

I fish off the reel and give it a few yards then lift into the fish then hold on.

When i first started fishing for Salmon i had a bad habit of lifting right away as i was still in the trout mode of fishing.

Hard not to strike

Hornet

[storlaks]

When fishing a sinking line, I grip the line as soon as I feel the fish. Once I feel the full weight, it's at this point I lift into the fish.

Unless your fly has fished out and is almost downstream from where you are standing. I would not clamp the line then as you are direct to the fish.

I also hold the line clamped when fishing a sinker and it could be agrued that you can do the same with a floater. It's the belly in the line that essentially allows you to do this as the fish takes, turns and straightens out the belly. If you have no belly in the line, then I would advise you let it take some line from the reel or a loop, whichever method you use.

hope this makes sense.

[salmao]

Thanks for all the answers!!

I use the belly in the line when fishing for sea trout with wet flies and I'm using the same method with the salmon fishing.

Lets see if I can hook one to test these methods!!

[exerod]

Coming from a trout fishing background I’ve always found striking one of the oddest things about salmon fishing. It just doesn’t make sense, why should you give the fish line when it takes, you don’t in any other form of fly fishing. The idea that they need the slack or a belly in the line to turn with the fly sounds plausible, but in salmon spinning there is almost no belly in the line yet nobody advocates giving line to allow the fish to turn with a spinner.

That said I’m now, with one exception, a fully paid up member of the “Don’t strike, just hang on” club when I get a take. When fishing a sinker (or a take where don’t I see the fish on a floater/intermediate) I just hang on and don’t give line until I have to. When I do see the fish show as it comes to the fly I just hang on and hope it has gets hold, these were the ones I used to strike as they turned down but when I did they were never there However when fishing at very close range and I see the salmon’s mouth close on the fly I can’t see what harm there is in striking, the hook is where I want it so why wait!

Andy

[ceilidh]

This is one question about which there will never be a definitive answer, which is one of the reasons salmon fishing is so fascinating.
I believe that, in most cases, salmon either hook themselves or they don't and it is more the way they take than what we do which decides the end result.
That said, there are some ways in which we might improve our chances. Undoubtedly one of the least successful chances of a good hook- hold is upon 'the dangle'. The fly then is usually almost static and directly in front of the fish, which often gives it a gentle exploratory pluck. If the hook engages at all this is often in the skin above the front of the jaw, which is thin and easily torn. Hence that all too frequent experience of a couple of tugs, followed by a quick thrash on the surface and away! I usually raise my rod tip as the line comes onto the dangle, in the hope that a bit of extra slack in the curvature of the line might help, but I think this does more for my confidence than my catch rate.

Having now tried all the recommended methods, I usually fish off the reel, with one finger lightly trapping the line, decreasing this pressure as the line slows down. The (probably faulty) logic behind this is that, when the fly is traveling at it's fastest the salmon has less time to think and makes a more determined grab and the hook will secure some sort of hold even before the fish has time to turn away. This would also, of course, apply to spinning. Hence more resistance should ensure a better hook penetration.

As the fly slows down, the take may, perhaps, become more tentative and, if the prick of a hook is not felt immediately, the fish may well turn, allowing the hook to secure a better hold in the scissors.

On the other hand I have known some very successful fishers who swear by the old adage of " When the fish pulls, you pull back"!

[jkboy]

A take? Remind me what that feels like again? It's been so long

[rennie]

Its as simple as you make it,simply fish off an open reel when a fish takes your fly it will pull line off your reel by the time you react just lift the rod and firmly and steadily tighten.An open reel is one with the drag/click check set so the current cant pull line from it as your fly swings accross the stream but only just.Now the thing is you never know how a fish will take your fly and its easy to try and tighten into it to soon and fail to hook it,in fact its easier to miss a good take than it is to hit a marginal take so make the assumption all your takes will be good ones,get a pull,line runs off your reel,lift ,tighten and hook your fish.Now if you just get a couple of clicks off the reel and no more that was a Salmon(nowt else) hold your ground wait a minute or so and cast again so your fly fishes round slightly faster you wont have scared that fish by trying to hook it and it should come again but as your fly is fishing a bit faster you should provoke a more agressive response and get a better pull which will hook itself.

[munrokiller]

When I was a very young lad, I was taught the noble art of fly fishing by a legend of the River Deveron, Jock Masson. Now Jock always held a wee loop of line between his finger and the reel and on hooking a fish would let the loop go, for the fish to turn and wait until the reel began to scream. Although the time taken for the loop to disappear is less than a second, often especially in deep slow running water, it seemed like eternity. I carried on with this method for a couple of years, until I had a spell of losing fish. I’m sure that every angler has experienced this phenomenon, and like me, many may tend to analyse the unanswerable.
I decided to change to the popular method of straight off the reel with a medium drag setting and it seemed to work. Although for many years I was hooking them directly off the reel, I always held my finger against the line as like many anglers, the ‘pull’ is everything. I didn’t strike or tighten in any way; I simply let the process happen.
I carried on with this method until a couple of years ago, when fishing in Alaska with plenty fish to experiment on. Since my trip, I have been a total convert of the clamping brigade and now when I feel the line tighten, I immediately clamp the line against the Rod Handle. In my view, when you get a pull, the fly is in the Salmon’s mouth and the mouth is closed, therefore why not hold on and set the hook. I will add that although I lose the odd fish, I certainly get the majority. Most importantly for me, the take can be prolonged, without being hard on them; if you just clamp the line, they will often wait for something to happen. For any angler who considers the take as the most memorable part of the fight, I’d encourage you to try clamping. Obviously this will not work for everyone but if you are keen to prolong the magical moment, give it a go.

[elwyman]

I tend to hold a loop, lift the rod slowly and tighten into the fish -not strike, just tighten. This seems to work well for me.

However, when I caught the fish last week I was still in 'troutfishing mode' - the rod was held low and although I had a small loop of line, both fish took really hard and hooked themselves on a tight line. Both were well hooked in the scissors and roof of mouth.

I don't have a lot of experience of fishing slow pools with fly, but I would imagine that striking early makes sense.

[sinkingtip]

For me, and in ultra simple terms - assuming that your rod is pointing a few degrees above the horizontal - as you slowly swing around there is a natural sag forms in the line which provides the required amount of 'slack' for a fish to intercept and turn on a fly without any sense of the angler - in my opinion. Most of the salmon I have ever caught have been extremely gentle takes that when I have felt them I have been convinced, on many occasions, that I had a 'guid troot on' before all hell to broke loose. As soon as I feel the slow gentle pull (is it a troot?) I just raise the rod gently but firmly (never strike !) - feel the weight of the fish in the current....after a few 'pumps' from the fish I give it one wee extra 'bump' to set the hooks and then play it off the reel or handline. I tend to handline on the occasions when they decide to come straight for you in the belief that you have more control over what you have to give out or take back over just playing the fish straight off the reel.
On a slightly different note, Falkus, in his excellent book Seatrout Fishing, advocates pointing the rod directly at seatrout as this gives a better hookhold and an instant indication of a take.

[munrokiller]

Sinkingtip,

From your descriptions above, I take it you haven't actually caught many Salmon.

If this is not the case, I do apologise and I'd be very interested as to where you do most of your fishing. The majority of my fishing has been in Scotland and I actually tend to find the direct opposite; the majority of my fish have been pretty strong takes, with perhaps mainly grilse gently tweaking, plucking or gently pulling the fly. I do find your terminology of 'pumps' and 'bumps' quite amusing and have certainly never heard those descriptive terms with regard to the 'take' before. In my professional role, I certainly wouldn't recommend hand-lining too many Salmon as it would most likely end in disaster, and personally feel that most anglers just wind like mad ( for use of a more descriptive word ) in an attempt to keep up with them.

Interesting views nonetheless.

[elwyman]

MK - the Spey is generally fast flowing, so perhaps that explains why most of your takes are "strong".

Many of the takes I experience are quite gentle - the line just stops and you lift into a fish. I'd guess (very roughly) that my takes have been:

50% gentle
30% solid knock
20% hard bang - all of these have been in fast/strong flows.

As I said above, I tend to hold the rod at about 30 degrees above horizontal, so perhaps the line sag absorbs most of the shock in the gentle takes.

[munrokiller]

John,

I realise that on a faster flowing river that the take would be quicker therefore perceived as stronger but I have fished many much slower flowing rivers and had the very same results.

Having mentally pictured my rod position though, I do hold it, at the most, 3' above the surface giving very little loose line and clamp immediately so perhaps that may be a more reasonable explanation for the more savage takes.

I want to keep it that way though; as I stated earlier the 'take' is indeed 95% of the enjoyment for me and long may it continue.

Thanks for the analysis though.

[elwyman]

munrokiller said:

John,


......... as I stated earlier the 'take' is indeed 95% of the enjoyment for me and long may it continue.

I'd definitely agree with that!

[sinkingtip]

Hi Munro - thanks for your reply. What I am trying to describe is a generalisation and from my point of view and experience. Really what I should have said is that I have experienced many kinds of take and many variations on the take in the 35 odd years I have been fly fishing for salmon. Some vicious, some 'plucky', some slow, some 'long pull'y - but mainly gentle. Not always - just often enough for me to make my opening statement. Modesty prevents me divulging my seasonal average but lets just say I do ok . Last season was actually marked by the fact that all my salmon (including grilse) were taken on the single handed fly rod - fish up to 12lbs. Season tally a modest 35 fish not including seatrout. Had better seasons - had worse. Fish on average 1 day pw April - May and couple of evenings a week June - August with a week someplace at the 'back end'. Main rivers - Tay, Esk's - occasional sortie's to the other 'classics', Kyle's and North West Coast.
Just to explain my 'terminology' a little further "pumps" - that 'feeling' or sensation you experience when you feel the weight of a fish for the first time after the initial take, or, at that point before the reel overcomes inertia and the fish takes it's first run. Follow me ?
"Bump" - after the take, no matter what kind of take - vicious or otherwise - having raised the rod into the fish at the outset I simply raise the rod again, at an appropriate point, in a firm but short 'striking action' (don't like using that word) simply to set the hook. At this point maybe I should mention that I only fish barbless. If it is a poor hook hold it will come away at that point and save both the fisher and the fish the angling equivalent of 'grief' . I have to say, however, that a "recipe for disaster" in my opinion is someone who is possibly not all that experienced having to reel like MacStink if a fish comes towards them only to have their knuckles 'rapped', literally, when the fish decides to go the opposite way without any warning or that the speed that they need to reel might result in a reel fankle - maybe not. It may be me but I just find the practice of playing a fish, for the greater part, off the loose coils fed through your right hand / fingers much more sensitive and much more 'informative' in terms of what the fish's next movements are likely to be. Glad you like the amusing terminology though ;D
Regards STip

[storlaks]

Just to pick up on one point here. If you are fishing at range (long casts) on a big river using an intermediate or sinking line and you experience a take (hard or gentle) then it is at this point you need to set the hook, especially if you are using larger doubles or trebles. Once you bring the spring of the rod into play trying to set a hook on a longish line, partly underwater, is almost impossible. There is very little pressure being applied directly to the hook once the rod is bent into the fish.

Fortunately salmon often hook themselves by turning on the fly, especially in a good flow, but I still like to feel I have applied a certain degree of direct pressure on the hook to try and get it in. By this I mean I hold my rod low, keep the line clamped until I feel the full weight of the fish...then I lift.

I hope I get the chance to experience this next week on the Dee

[munrokiller]

Sinkingtip,

Thanks for the explination. I follow you perfectly well as I have done throughout my short spell on the forum with great amusment. Glad I got an early apology in and have another. I find it very interesting that although we have both fished for around the same length of time that our views are so different and can only guess that it's down to the way that we actually fish.

I wonder if the rap on the knuckles of my guests from their reel would be harder or more gentle than the one I would give them if I caught them hand-lining !

Finally, in my opinion, your 2006 total of 35 fish is far from a modest figure, especially considering how many outings you have - well done, many anglers would dream of such a figure. Mine was 57 ( 2 retained ) but I do spend every day on the river and get the opportunity of a cast from time to time - still 187 off the 1000 mark though but here's hoping.


Keep the posts coming as it's very interesting to hear all views on that special moment of the take.