Executioner and Arndilly Fancy

[hornet]

Cheers AA

[altmor]

ibrox said:

Hi Altmor,

I've tied these flies in 2"aluminium tubes and fished them for seatrout at night and i've got to say i've been well impressed with the results

Ahhh well .... there goes my retirement plans ;D ;D

[rpsalmon]

Dear Altmor

I only leave the cellire bottle open long enough to loose the watery look, I don't like it thick. If you wanted more coats then why not use a second pot of (watery) cellire for the second coat? Spartan tackle sell some fly varnish that clearly isn’t made by Veniard because it comes in different containers and colours, also some of the colours don’t mix well with Veniard Cellire. You could see if their’s is better. The range of varnish’s available is poor, especially when you look at the various products that tyers of small trout flies use.

Orvis had some glue like clear varnish that was very good for sealing hair and heads, I’d buy more but the bottle’s lid became stuck and I had a bit of a disaster when I eventually managed to open with bottle…a disaster over a £400 rug !!!

For me, I try to avoid red headed flies, I don’t use silver doctor’s. I use dark orange cellire on most of my shrimp flies to match the orange colour of the flies. If I’m tying flies for someone else then I would probably put two coats of red on the fly.

I don’t have a digital camera but I have a scanner and it should be possible to use that to get a picture. I think I have some short shank salmon doubles of the red headed silver doctor pattern that were tied for someone 20 years ago but they never collected, I should be able find these and post tomorrow.

[ibrox]

Oops!!! sorry Altmor ;D ;D ;D

[altmor]

Thanks rps, look forward to the scanned images - they should come out ok.

AA, just a temporary set back - I've been engaging the old grey matter and come up with the "Executioner Frodin Disc" .... ahh .. haa .. off to the vice now then down to the patent office first thing in the morning.

Cheers all,

Altmor.

[ibrox]

;D ;D ;D Good thinking Altmor

[rpsalmon]

Dear Altmor

I couldn't wait to see if it worked so I just took a few fishing flies from box together with my favorite little black and orange tubes. For some reason the orange heads have come out grey, I also put in a couple curry's shrimps (too overdressed for my liking) that someone wanted...these have a red head.

This is the link, I've given up trying to insert the picture! If it comes out badly I'll try and see if I can do better tomorrow.

[salmondan]

ibrox said:

My good friend Dan has some of my Executioner flees if he would like to post them on my behalf ;D ;D

Sorry Mike, only just seen this on my late night chardonnay jaunt round the t'interpipe, consider it done, will be some time tomorrow.


Lovely flies you've tied there altmor btw.

[DAZ]

I have been reading this thread with interest.

What are the advantages of using colourd varnishes?....Bloody awful stuff IMHO!.

A much better finish,and a smaller head is achieved by using fluorescent threads....Again IMHO!.

DAZ.

[ibrox]

I tie a lot of my seatrout and salmon flies with white thread because if I'm adding a tag or the body is half and half, say front half silver tinsel and the back red floss i think tieing the red floss onto the body of white thread brings it out in it's true colour therfore i use coloured varnish for the head.

I suppose I'm lazy Daz. ;D ;D ;D

[DAZ]

Fair enough mate.

But you could quite easily just tie off after you have completed the body and switch to a thread of your choice/colour to finish off the tying of the wing,and still be left with a nice small/neat head.

DAZ.

[ibrox]

Totally agree with you Daz mate!

But i did say I was lazy ;D ;D ;D

[rpsalmon]

Ernest Crossfield had a reputation for tying flies with small heads. The principal reason for his small heads was his planning, instead of the hackle being on the body, and the under/over wing being tied on top of this, resulting in a large head, Crossfield tied his hackle along from the end of the body, and then his wing along from but next to the hackle, not tying each one on top of each other. The result is neat and works with all flies. A heavy head is likely to turn the fly over because of its weight, it is also more likely to falter in keeping a consistent fishing level.

[altmor]

rpsalmon said:

Dear Altmor

I couldn't wait to see if it worked so I just took a few fishing flies from box together with my favorite little black and orange tubes. For some reason the orange heads have come out grey, I also put in a couple curry's shrimps (too overdressed for my liking) that someone wanted...these have a red head.

This is the link, I've given up trying to insert the picture! If it comes out badly I'll try and see if I can do better tomorrow.

i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb29/rpsalmon/scan.jpg

Good looking flies rps - and they came out well on the scanned image. Your last post too along with Daz's and AA's has helped me a lot in differing materials and methods to achieve a slimmer head, which I do accept will "swim" better than a larger one, given even my fairly basic understanding of hydrodynamics.

Reverting to photobucket - it will give you 3 codes of the uploaded pictures for posting direct onto host sites like this (proboards), if you use the IMG code (copy and paste straight onto the reply text box), the picture should come up without the need for the link when you post your reply.

Think I'll experiment with some red floss round the head and some clear varnish over tonight - if they look any good - I'll maybe even post them up for more good constructive crit.

Keep up the good work, Regards,

Altmor.

[rpsalmon]

Dear Altmor

Thanks for the tip, seems so simple now that I've managed to show the picture.

[altmor]

rpsalmon said:

Ernest Crossfield had a reputation for tying flies with small heads. The principal reason for his small heads was his planning, instead of the hackle being on the body, and the under/over wing being tied on top of this, resulting in a large head, Crossfield tied his hackle along from the end of the body, and then his wing along from but next to the hackle, not tying each one on top of each other. The result is neat and works with all flies. A heavy head is likely to turn the fly over because of its weight, it is also more likely to falter in keeping a consistent fishing level.

Thanks for the tip rps,

I've come across Earnest's work before and whilst I know the theory behind the small head make sense, was Earnest not more famed for his use of the woodduck (summer duck or mandarin duck) as a topping rather than a hackle, in the salmon flies he tied, and if I'm not mistaken more in the trout flies with which the woodduck flanks, tied upright and split is the hallmark of Catskill style dry flies.

Worth a bash at the vice anyway and please correct me if I'm wrong in my distant recollections of Earnest's work - it has been some time since I remember reading about this.

Cheers,

Altmor.

[juniorspey]

nice flies altmor and RPS! i have a bottle of red varnish with no markings on it that i was given by an old friend, it is quite thin and as previosly mentioned you cak see it soak in on the first coat. following advice from speyvalley i now tie all of my flies with 8/0 thread, with which even i can get a reasonably sized head, keep the pics coming, i'm away to copy them!!! ;D ;D ;D

[rpsalmon]

Dear Juniorspey
Planning, not putting all materials on top of each other, and limiting the number of turns of thread, will all reduce the size of heads; using a thinner thread only helps a bit. I use 6/0 round section thread for strength, I will put one turn over floss or plastic tinsel to keep it in place, twice over wire ribbing, but once I put on the hackle I will undo one of these turns. I will use two or three to fasten hackle, if I turn the hackle more than once then I will usually weave one turn of thread through the hackle to help secure and strengthen it, then tying off end of hackle hackle with no more than two turns of thread.

Heads. People generally try to tie in far too much hair as a wing, you really don't need that much, with many of my summer patterns I will count from 25 to 40 hairs. You only need one turn of thread to keep these hairs in place, then move hair to position correctly, after this you can add two more turns to bed the wing in. A Davie McPhail tip to make the wing spruce up, is to take a turn of thread 1/3rd of the way up from the base of the hair wing, and then continue to finish off head. After I've put in a maximum of 5 turns of thread over hair, I will cut off at correct angle that will ensure a nice taper, then add a bit of clear varnish to hair roots. At this point people often go over the head with numerous turns of thread to make it look nice, don't! After cutting off the hair and dabbing a bit of varnish, whip finish part or the whole of the head. Immediately put thin clear varnish over the threads and let it soak in.

Your head should be small!

You can learn how to plan better if you tie a lot of the same pattern. If you use a lot of size 8 stoats tail doubles then get twenty of the hooks and dress that one pattern in one day. It is simple and straight forward, you will get used to planning the fly and constructing it efficiently, these lessons can be transferred onto other patterns.

[lastcast]

Dear Juniorspey
Planning, not putting all materials on top of each other, and limiting the number of turns of thread, will all reduce the size of heads; using a thinner thread only helps a bit. I use 6/0 round section thread for strength, I will put one turn over floss or plastic tinsel to keep it in place, twice over wire ribbing, but once I put on the hackle I will undo one of these turns. I will use two or three to fasten hackle, if I turn the hackle more than once then I will usually weave one turn of thread through the hackle to help secure and strengthen it, then tying off end of hackle hackle with no more than two turns of thread.

Heads. People generally try to tie in far too much hair as a wing, you really don't need that much, with many of my summer patterns I will count from 25 to 40 hairs. You only need one turn of thread to keep these hairs in place, then move hair to position correctly, after this you can add two more turns to bed the wing in. A Davie McPhail tip to make the wing spruce up, is to take a turn of thread 1/3rd of the way up from the base of the hair wing, and then continue to finish off head. After I've put in a maximum of 5 turns of thread over hair, I will cut off at correct angle that will ensure a nice taper, then add a bit of clear varnish to hair roots. At this point people often go over the head with numerous turns of thread to make it look nice, don't! After cutting off the hair and dabbing a bit of varnish, whip finish part or the whole of the head. Immediately put thin clear varnish over the threads and let it soak in.

Your head should be small!




Whoever said getting a little head was easy !

[salmondan]

As promised some considerable time ago, Sunday I think (late as usual : here are the pics of some flees that Annan Angler kindly donated when I met up with him on the Annan in February.

Mike, I hope this pic is enough for you to show what you mean about coloured varnish. Let me know if not and I'll try to do an uber close up.



The white photoshopped box btw is one of my wayward flies that has somehow infiltrated this box (WHERE IT HAS NO PLACE, ACHTUNG, GUARDS, REMOVE HIM, SCHNELL).

Cheers guys.

PS, Lovely flees you've tied there RPS.