Fair Play

[scottyjock]

Hi Springer ,

Very rarely rained off if you use the worm

;D ;D ;D only kiddin before people start running at me with ropes.

This is a difficult one we have taken a April week on the dee for the last 7 or 8 years & i can only think of 1 day when we were rained off for the whole day. There have been other days where we have not fished for maybe 75% of the day then had the best fishing of the week in the other 25%.

I suppose if it was the obvious flood conditions but then different rivers have different conditions even in flood some may fish well on certain beats or pools.

Jock

[exerod]

Leave it like it is.
You pay your money and take your chance. It all averages out in the long run.
Imagine the potential for arguments, who decides what is un-fishable. What about all those weeks of hopelessly low water and bright sun or constant gales are they worth a refund. The financial shortfall will have to be made up somewhere. Just think if you hit perfect conditions and broke the beat record and the owner asked for an extra payment, well you were happy to take the refund last time!

Andy

[hadrian]

hello again springer,the amount of days in a season you couldnt fish at all must be very few,i think you are right to say the loss should be halved,maybe a 50% reduction on your next booking would be a fair way to do it.however if an angler had a season ticket which entitled him to,for example 1 day per week and his day was rained off how could that angler be compensated bearing in mind there could be as many as 15 rods on per day.can you imagine fishing on the same beat as me(you lucky lad)you fishing your season ticket day,me a day ticket,were rained off i tootle off to get my cash back while you empty the lashed on bin bags and get nothing,not even your b.f.h.

its a tricky one.

hadrian.

[hadrian]

hi exerod,if you smash the beat record you will still have paid to do it.the who decides question is easy to answer,the water levels,most beats will have a way, or could easily have a way of measuring the height of water and saying, right,its above here(x)no fishing,the person responsible for the running/management of the beat would have the final say.

hadrian.

[exerod]

Hadrian,

Yes, but if the income from the season is to remain the same as it is under the current system then either the people who hit good weeks (good in terms of conditions) have to pay more (over and above what you pay for a good week already!) or the price for all weeks has to go up to make up for the "unlucky" rods who get a discount for being washed off. So we all end up paying more. I know it should work out the same in the long run but if I was the owner I would put it up the amount needed to cover the refunds and then a bit more to be on the safe side!

Andy

[hadrian]

hi exerod,personally, as a day ticket buyer on one or two beats on the tyne(very occasionally)i would rather pay a little more each time,maybe a couple of quid in the knowledge that if i was to be rained off at least there would be some kind of compensation.in fact i think doing it that way would boost day ticket sales for beat owners,especially in feb march and april.i think that could only apply to day ticket sales,it would be more acceptable to season ticket owners if they knew that across the board day tickets had this kind of insurance included in the price.

hadrian.

[acw]

The Wye Usk foundation waters do a washed of no pay system.
Now there is a river that can be dirty and out of sorts .

[hadrian]

nearly all if not all have the same rule.the question is weather the rule could be any way fairer or more beneficial to both beat owners and anglers.we all fish most of the time in conditions that arnt completely perfect,to bright,to coloured,to high to low,to clear,to cold,to warm,to windy,to rainy,etc etc etc,however if a beat manager said"this waters to dangerous to fish",because thats what were talking about,not weather you have a chance of catching anything,weve all caught fish in conditions that were totaly crap so if the water is safe to fish you always have a chance so if you pays your money you takes your chance.if you pays your money but theres no chance because a beat is unfishable then common sense and a fair outcome for both beat owners and anglers should be reached,a compromise.

50% off your next booking bearing in mind you have paid the £2 or£3 rained off insurance.everybodys happy,you get some of your cash back and the beat owners ticket sales go up because anglers arnt worried about booking well in advance and loosing their cash.

hadrian.

[williegunn]

Alan
Do you have any idea the running costs of a salmon beat?
If you had £3miilion do you think buying a salmon beat would be a good investment?

[williegunn]

I'm sure beat owners could offer refunds they would just factor it in to the costs, so the costs would go up. I am happy with the present system.

[flybox]

If you really run a business, you show yourself as a fool for even entertaining this suggestion. One of these days you may misjudge your margin for contingencies and you will go out of business.

Frankly, I don't believe you run a business.

You also show the worst sort of socialist tendancies 'if they inherited it, they don't desserve it.'


Imagine your beat needs to make £100,000 a year. There are 200 days when it's in season - 1 January to mid July. You therefore need to charge £500 per day - so on the basis of ten rods, that's £50 per rod.

Aha. Over the last ten years, it's been unfishable on average 40 days a year. You therefore divide your £100,000 by 160 days, making £62.50 per rod day.

Some years it's been unfishable 60 days a year. Murphy's law guarantees that this year it will be 65 days, so you build that in 'just in case'. That takes us up to £74.07 per day.

And all those refunds. You have an average of 400 disappointed fishermen a year. So you'll need to write out 400 cheques. The bank charges you 50p for each cheque you write. You'll need an envelope, stamp and paper - 50p. And you'll have to employ somebody for an extra four days a year to administer this- another £1 per lost day.

So lets put anoter £2 on each ticket to adminster it. And then round it up.

How do you fancy paying £80 for your fishing? You'll get your money back if it's cancelled.


Oh and by the way, the only water I own is in a Volvic bottle.

[salar76]

I know of a beat on the Dee that offers a refund/rod later in the season if the river is unfishable due to grue, in feb only. This is very generous in my opinion as the price of fishing at that time of year generally reflects the chance of such an event.

in my opinion, even though it may seem like we pay large sums for our fishing, the beat owners are rarely doing much more than break even for their troubles.

[johnmac]

Isn't the world becoming such an aggressive place.......I'm frightened to even put my thoughts in this post for fear of a lynching! ;D hahahaha

Ah the drama of Salmon fishing....... i'm glad i got into it....... now heres a question, as someone who is new to Salmon fishing and yet to catch his first fish....... can i get a refund if i blank?? Or can i fish for free and then pay £8.88 per kilogram (the cost in the supermarket!) when i do catch one?

when you start giving refunds..... then things start to get silly..... and points like these start to get raised...... you pay your money, you take your chance!

there are beats on most rivers where day tickets are available at short notice throughout the year..... so simply look at the 7day forecast before you book...... or take a chance.... and sod's law it will rain! ooops

[hadrian]

hi salar 76,the beat you talk about on the dee will not be offering you a good price in feb because there is a chance of getting washed off,theyre offering you that price because theres less chance of catching a fish then.however if in feb you book, but the day you book is unfishable,and they give you the chance to book that day later in the year for free(say mid oct),then i think thats an outstanding way to treat your customers and they should be applauded for it.

can you post the beat + details please.

thanks,
hadrian.

[williegunn]

hadrian said:

hi salar 76,(say mid oct),then i think thats an outstanding way to treat your customers and they should be applauded for it.

can you post the beat + details please.

thanks,
hadrian.

Interesting you mention mid October.

The Dee shuts end of September

[hadrian]

mr gunn,i bow to your knowledge on opening and closing times.im sure you understood the point i was trying to make.opening and closing times have always confused me where england and scotland are concerned.it was the scottish dee i take it,or was it?

colin,i dont know if you have actually read the posts thoroughly, but if you would take the time to have another read through you will realize that nobody is trying to say "ahh,i didnt stand much chance today,can i have my money back"were talking about unfishable,not able to fish at all,dangerous conditions etc.
Amin Edit:
Yes i have read the posts and fully understand what you are talking about by unfishable,it has happened to me many a time
but i don't get all hot and bothered about it ,you can't take on nature and thats a fact.
salar76,if you really want to know how much cash these poor beat owners who"rarely break even for their troubles"are making, do some probing the next time you speak to one.even if they were only breaking even,the value of the beat goes up every year.
from my experience already,and i havnt been salmon fishing that long,they are making profit,the letting agents are making profit, water companies, are making profit,i have nothing against that,as long as they all play fair.

hadrian.

[rennie]

Dam frustrating turning up to fish and being wiped out by too much water I usually try to go through the motions (often with little chance of success)but heres a thought an acquaintance was turned away by the ghillie 4 days out of 6 last year on the Tweed through the beat being unsafe (top marks to the ghillie there) but he was paying a day what we payed a week,now I would be less than chuffed over that one,interesting eh also tried to fish for a full week when it wasn't possible to stand for a howling upstream in the face gale,fly only beat in short not a cat in hells chance.Where do both sides draw the line,good catches often mean increased rents the following year,but bad catches rarely see a reduction in rent and if you have to pay for your weeks fishing a full year in advance.Isn't it strange that in some circles the customer is always right but the Salmon Fisher has to take what he is given?

[hadrian]

colin,what on earth do you mean by "you cant take on nature"?do you mean the nature of the poor people who are barely breaking even(beat owners)?i think your right to some degree,the more wonga these chaps can milk from us the better it is for everyone that is connected to them.apart from us,the anglers.

hadrian.

What i mean by nature Hadrian is if it decides to rain for 5 days and turn the river into a raging torrent there is very little any of us can do about it,and complaining is just like peeing into the wind if you catch my drift.
Colin.

[williegunn]

hadrian
Tell me how the beat owners are milking you?
Show me the figures.

Come on you have your chance.

[hadrian]

can i just show you my udders instead?

hadrian.