Leader Length ?

[flynnboy]

Hi,

I have just bought the Loop Quatro Tip Spey line which comes with x4 leaders of 14' length. I am finding the length a little too long, normally the leaders I have used are around 7'.

Is there a 'normal' length ? My rod is 14'. Any opinions on cutting the leaders down - will it affect performance ?

Thanks for any input

Cheers

flynnboy

[williegunn]

I think you will be able to attach your leader to the end of the sink tips. You have a floater and three sinktips which sink at different rates.

[jimthefish]

If I am correct, I think that Flynnboy is suggesting cutting back the tips which he is referring to as "leaders". If so, then my advice would be don't do it. That line was designed and works really well with the 14ft tips.

Either you have mismatched the weight of line to your rod or you need to invest in a good casting instructor.

[ceilidh]

I have used several "multi tip" lines, though not the loop one. However, I believe that the loop has a relatively short belly and was designed to perform at it's optimum using the tips (heads) supplied with it unmodified (unlike the case with pure shooting head lines). You don't specify which type or line rating of 14' rod you are using, but I would advise against cutting any of the standard tips until you have had some more replies to this question, since there are a number of loop users on this forum.

[flynnboy]

Hi,

Yes, I am referring to the tips when I said 'Leader', sorry. And yes jimthefish it is probably my casting !

[speycaster]

dont cut the tips fpr heavens sake they are balanced for weight and length to match the line providing it dosnt over or underload your rod they will be fine allthough you may feel they are to long [not whatyour used to] you will soon get the hang of them

[robmason]

Hi flynnboy, we're all a bit technical here, so let us know the details of your rod and line and we'll have the problem sorted in a jiffy. As an example I find a 9/10 Rio Midspey tips line is perfect with my B&W Powerlite Speycaster, but the Airflo Deltaspey just has to be 8/9 to work effectively. The rod is rather randomly classified 8-10.

[flynnboy]

Hi Rob,

My rod is a Shakespeare Oracle 1V 14' 10/11 and the new Loop line is WF11/12. I am still quite a novice and sometimes still get confused with terminology, this is also the first time I have used a line with interchangeable heads/tips. Previously I used a Rio Windcutter 10/11 and I do find the weight of the new Loop line better.

I have got myself even more confused because I am now wondering if my tippet ( length of nylon with fly attached - correct? ) should be connected directly to the end of the interchangeable tips or whether or not I should do the usual and connect a leader and tippet to the end of the interchangeable tip as I would with my Windcutter ?

Thanks for your help everyone, I appreciate it.

[castlikeaghille]

On paper your line and rod have different AFTM ratings so in theory, and probably reality, aren't balanced. The negative impact on casting of a line that is too heavy for a rod is more pronounced in multi-tips. This probably explains the difficulty you are having with it. My advice to you would be to see if you can exchange your AFTM 11/12 for an AFTM 10/11 - especially with the Loop Multi-Tip, which in my experince is one of the better lines for accurate AFTM matching.

Regards

CLaG

[sagecaster]

Yeah, I agree with ClaG, having fished with the Oracle although it does have a nice through action, it is not a powerful rod and I would expect it to struggle on an 11/12. Best bet would be to change it for a 10/11, and concentrate on perfecting your technique on the floater first, then move on to the sinkers as they will require more careful application of technique.

[jock]

While the 14' Oracle can handle a 11/12 line this is not the ideal combo. It is at is best when I have it paired up with a 65' 9/10 With that it will handle any sink tip you care to use.

Cheers,

Jock

[flynnboy]

Thanks again for your input with this everyone. Would anyone care to comment on my other question concerning leaders and terminology, below ?

flynnboy said:

I have got myself even more confused because I am now wondering if my tippet ( length of nylon with fly attached - correct? ) should be connected directly to the end of the interchangeable tips or whether or not I should do the usual and connect a leader and tippet to the end of the interchangeable tip as I would with my Windcutter ?

Thanks again

[dangler]

Flynnboy, I can understand your confusion.
In its simplest form, a fly fishing line set- up , from the pointy end consists of a fly then a length of nylon, copolymer or fluorocarbon linking the fly to the flyline. This piece of linking material used to be called the cast but for whatever reason fashion changed this to leader.

the leader/cast could be a level piece of material, a tapered piece of material; either continuous knotless taper or knotted pieces in reducing thickness and breaking strain.
If the leader/cast is knotted, then the thinnest part attached to the fly is called the tippet.

Complications have arisen over the last cople of decades by the introduction of braided leaders and polyleaders which have been designed to fit between the previously described leader/cast and the fly line.
Their function is to provide a continuation of the fly line taper and improve turnover and where a poly or braided leader of a different density to the flyline is chosen, to change the depth presentation of the fly. For instance adding a sinking plyleader to a full floating flyline effectively changes the line into a sinktip.

The latest complication is the introduction into salmon fishing of the multi tip lne which is in effect a whole line chopped into a number of pieces rejoined by loop to loop connections. The front taper of the line isusually available in different densities to allow a whole variety of fly presentation options.

From the original simple fly-cast-line we now potentially have fly-tippet-leader-polyleader-front taper(of multitip)-belly(possibly in different lengths)-running line- backing.

I hope this helps! Bring back the days when you could have a night out and change from 10 bob.
Maybe we should call the thin bit the cast?

Mike

[flynnboy]

Thanks Dangler, and everyone, I think I just about have this cleared up....

In my original mail I also asked about cutting down the length of the interchangeable tips for my Loop Quatro Tip. You may be interested to know that I mailed Eoin Fairgrieve who tells me that it is okay to cut it down to 10'.

[williegunn]

dangler said:

.
Maybe we should call the thin bit the cast?

Mike

Hear hear.

Mike some of us still do, I also still drive on the left, and eat using my fork in my lefthand. I also spell colour, colour rather than color, the colonials seem to be changing everything.

[macd]

well put mike, i have been getting a bit confused by this. It was always refered to as the cast when i was a loon, whether a level leader or knotted pieces you describe.

dangler said:

Flynnboy, I can understand your confusion.
In its simplest form, a fly fishing line set- up , from the pointy end consists of a fly then a length of nylon, copolymer or fluorocarbon linking the fly to the flyline. This piece of linking material used to be called the cast but for whatever reason fashion changed this to leader.

the leader/cast could be a level piece of material, a tapered piece of material; either continuous knotless taper or knotted pieces in reducing thickness and breaking strain.
If the leader/cast is knotted, then the thinnest part attached to the fly is called the tippet.

Complications have arisen over the last cople of decades by the introduction of braided leaders and polyleaders which have been designed to fit between the previously described leader/cast and the fly line.
Their function is to provide a continuation of the fly line taper and improve turnover and where a poly or braided leader of a different density to the flyline is chosen, to change the depth presentation of the fly. For instance adding a sinking plyleader to a full floating flyline effectively changes the line into a sinktip.

The latest complication is the introduction into salmon fishing of the multi tip lne which is in effect a whole line chopped into a number of pieces rejoined by loop to loop connections. The front taper of the line isusually available in different densities to allow a whole variety of fly presentation options.

From the original simple fly-cast-line we now potentially have fly-tippet-leader-polyleader-front taper(of multitip)-belly(possibly in different lengths)-running line- backing.

I hope this helps! Bring back the days when you could have a night out and change from 10 bob.
Maybe we should call the thin bit the cast?

Mike

[flynnboy]

Hi Graham,

Yes, in fact I have no intention of cutting the tip, it's too much like sacrilege. I just mentioned it for interest. I have already decided that I will do what you have suggested if I do decide that I want a lighter load, I intend persevering for a while longer. I trust Eoin because in fact he has given me several lessons and as you probably know he is a dream caster and knows what he is about - poetry in motion.

[jimthefish]

flynnboy said:

My rod is a Shakespeare Oracle 1V 14' 10/11 and the new Loop line is WF11/12.

As a matter of interest why did you go for the heavier rated line in relation to your rod's rating ? Were you advised so to do ?

[flynnboy]

Hi jimthefish

Well I tried one and preferred it over my Rio line, it just seemed to work the rod better.

Since my rod is 10/11 doesn't that mean 11 will be acceptable also with a line rated 11/12 ?

[flynnboy]

It seems I have been elevated to 'Poacher' status , I wondered what that stuff was all about ;D