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Post by blue on Sept 28, 2007 19:04:32 GMT
Well Gentlefolk, I have a tale to relate this evening, which I believe to be 100% fact.
A good fishing friend of mine took himself off to Perth this afternoon with the intention of having Kerachers( the local game dealer/salmon smoker/fish merchant) prepare for him some of their finest smoked salmon from one of few Tay fish he has killed this year.
It transpires that Kerachers are unable to provide the above mentioned service to my friend.
"Why ever not?" you will no doubt be asking yourselves.
The reason being for this state of affairs is that they are chock a block with fish at the moment from "parties of Germans" fishing Lower Tay beats!!
According to the gentleman in the employ of Kerachers they are preparing "at least 130 fish for the hot smoker & (unintelligible) for the cold smoker." He could give no indication to my friend as to when he should return with his fish.
I know this has the feel of an apocryphal tale & urban myth, but my friend is honourable and would not bull**** to this degree, I swear!
Please compare today the catch returns from Dee,Tweed & Tay and tell me we are not, at this precise moment, allowing our Tay "capital" rather than the "interest" to be killed, oak-smoked and vacuum packed?
Paul
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Post by madkeen on Sept 28, 2007 19:52:26 GMT
Well if that's the kind of fishers the Tay is attracting the sooner some sort of catch restriction is in place the better so these balloons p*ss off to strip another river clean.
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Post by Fruin on Sept 28, 2007 19:59:00 GMT
A very sad story, and I do not find it hard to believe. I am usually against compulsory C&R, but this sort of horror would have me climbing over people to vote in its favour.
The beat owners are neglecting there responsibilities as custodians of the river if they are allowing this to happen.
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Post by windcutter on Sept 28, 2007 20:40:27 GMT
Fruin,i was up at a beat of our mutual acquaintance on monday picking up a fish that i'd had smoked at kerachers to find a party of swiss.To their eternal shame they had a fish hanging outside of the hut on the rail that was as stale as last weeks ale.
They were as chuffed as they could be,the ghillie looked as if he wanted to greet.
What can you do?
What made it worse for me was that the beat owner had popped up for a spot of lunch with these "fishers"
I picked up my smoked salmon and left.
I have killed 3 fish this year all of which were bleeding.If the tay does not put it's house in order there will be no house left in due course.
cheers
john
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Post by salmonnut on Sept 28, 2007 21:10:30 GMT
This story (if true) is disgraceful and something that the TDSFB should do something about for the future of the Tay system that they are supposed to be the people who have the best interest of the system in their charge. The fact that a party of visiting anglers have killed 130 fish is a damming indictment they should be brought to answer for and also the ghillie who allowed this mass murder to happen. Some calculations130 fish at say 5lb each, thats 650lb of fish, maybe a party of 10? thats 65lb of fish per head, fek i couldn't give away that amount of fish never mind eat it. This sort of behavior should not be tolerated on any river, I would not allow these anglers back on the river no matter how much money they are contributing to the local economy. FISHMONGERS I'm sure there are several good men who are actively working to improve things on the Tay who would be interested in more details regarding where this slaughter took place.
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Post by Fruin on Sept 28, 2007 21:14:17 GMT
Fruin,i was up at a beat of our mutual acquaintance on monday picking up a fish that i'd had smoked at kerachers to find a party of swiss.To their eternal shame they had a fish hanging outside of the hut on the rail that was as stale as last weeks ale. They were as chuffed as they could be,the ghillie looked as if he wanted to greet. What can you do? What made it worse for me was that the beat owner had popped up for a spot of lunch with these "fishers" I picked up my smoked salmon and left. I have killed 3 fish this year all of which were bleeding.If the tay does not put it's house in order there will be no house left in due course. cheers john John, that is very sad. I do not blame the ghillies. I think that parties of rods that kill too many and/or stale fish are ignorant, but are not breaking any rules, other than unwritten ones. I do think that the owners have to empower the ghillies to run the show as far as what is allowed to be put in a poly tube and what is allowed to continue up the river. If the owners do not put measures in place soon, the choice will be removed from them, the ghillies and the anglers, and the stocks will be in tatters for many years, over the recovery period. |
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Post by windcutter on Sept 28, 2007 21:23:52 GMT
Salmonnut,i think we are talking about several lower tay beats here.The reason that this is important is that what is happening is almost a cultural thing.In days gone by these beats were stuffed with fish and almost all were killed.The problem is that these halfwits haven't moved with the times and cannot see what the consequences of their actions are.It's as if you are talking to a member of the flat earth society when you are talking to them.Denial is a big issue.IMHO the only way forward is to bring in C&R for the whole catchment,together with a viable hatchery programme.
The past creates the present ,which creates the future.
Look at the Dee and lets get rid of the dinosaurs.
Yours in disgust
john
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Post by salmonnut on Sept 28, 2007 21:46:37 GMT
I fish the council run Forth and Teith stretches of the forth fisheries, there is a 5 fish limit per angler per year for season ticket holders and a 2 fish limit for day ticket holders. This could be something that the TDSFB could introduce to the system and IMHO would help to wards the stopping of fish mongering practices. I myself was tagged as a fishmonger on another system (as Fruin knows). Wrongly i may add but the tag stuck. since fishing on the forth fishery i have yet to use all 5 tags for both rivers . eg . River Forth 2005, 22 fish caught, 4 retained. something that could be considered for the angler that wish to take and still conserve the stock for our future generations
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Post by victorclem on Sept 29, 2007 18:28:03 GMT
Does anyone know if the lower beats concerned are owned/managed by current TDSFB board members?? Parties of Germans, lower beats, this week, 130 + fish, I would have thought the bush telegraph would have worked it out by now. I think their position would be pretty untenable if this was the case.
The experience from the Dee is that the ghillies can deliver catch & release or any other system you care to name if they are given clear instructions by their employers to do so. At the end of the day, it is their jobs at stake, and if they are 100% committed to the scheme, their fishermen have to accept the new policies. My old estate gave a bottle of good whiskey for every fish returned. It works! The fisherman is happy, and £30-odd quid is nothing to the owner out of a week's fishing revenue, and the fish lives to reproduce again. But the ghillies are key to making it work...............
The Dee ask for 100% catch & release, they get 90%. The Tay ask for 50%, they get 40%. You get (almost) what you ask for, never any more.
VC
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Post by donnieW on Sept 29, 2007 18:55:28 GMT
The Dee ask for 100% catch & release, they get 90%. The Tay ask for 50%, they get 40%. You get (almost) what you ask for, never any more. VC  Do you have figures to back this up as I seriously doubt if 40% of Tay fish are returned? |
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Post by victorclem on Sept 29, 2007 19:00:14 GMT
Donnie,
40% was the figure they gave out at TDSFB AGM last year. I dont know any more than that.
VC
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Post by donnieW on Sept 29, 2007 20:51:25 GMT
If that's what the TDSFB say then it must be true, eh? Are the catch statistics ever made public?
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Post by salmonnut on Sept 29, 2007 20:59:05 GMT
If that's what the TDSFB say then it must be true, eh? Are the catch statistics ever made public? AYE RIGHT are these statistics for the whole of the river or only those who choose to comply and report accurately |
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Post by blue on Sept 29, 2007 21:17:55 GMT
Copied from a post from another forum: "Comeback by salmon sees catches leap to 86,000 NET RETURNS TOTAL number of salmon caught in Scotland's main salmon rivers in 2006. Catch and release figures are listed in brackets. • Tweed 16,863 (7,578) • Tay 12,843 (4,150) • Spey 10,516 (7,425) • South Esk 8,454 (717) • North Esk 7,700 (1,210) • Dee 5,597 (5,193) • Findhorn 3,956 (2,230) • Deveron 3,329 (1,523)" From a Scotsman article this week. Tay fish returned = 32.3% if my arithmetic is correct  Time for a change!!! Link to full article thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1542882007Edit: On looking at the original FRS document, The Scotsman appear to have miscalculated by adding an extra 1000 fish to the Tay total. Figures from FRS: Total Catch = 11843 salmon & grilse Retained = 7693 Returned = 4150 Still only 35% C & R. |
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jock
Member
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Post by jock on Sept 30, 2007 7:59:56 GMT
To get the full Salmon and SeaTrout catches 2006 report go to www.frs-scotland.gov.uk/Delivery/News/news.aspx?moduleid=28569Click on "more" and it will take you to the page with the link to the full report under the heading "notes for editors" You can also get the latest on "Red Vent" from the link above. I always have a look at the Fisheries Research site it is very informative. Remember these stats are based on the returns made. I assume the amount of "error" is the same each year, but who knows, you have to accept them at face value. Cheers, Jock |
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Post by Willie The Gillie on Sept 30, 2007 13:19:27 GMT
Guys this is dead simple stuff - Our beloved board has done nothing (ever) of any real significance (sadly). Other better organized rivers notably The Dee & Tweed have done much and they are now getting their payback (just like we are) We are now receiving the bi-product of decades of complacency (no action). I will be at this years AGM demanding that a new policy of 100% C&R on the Tay is adopted and passed AT THAT MEETING. We are dead as a river from the baws up (fact) and many jobs (including mine) and more importantly the economic benefits (that come from Tay fishers visiting rural Perthshire) are now on the line. A few of us have (in our spare time) kickstarted BIG significant projects albeit 20 years later than TDSFB should have started this sort of thing themselves.
The guys who run the show are not that interested (fact) It's only a social thing as how else would you pass from decade to decade ignoring the duplication of other river's policys that are proven to work. Our guys still bleet on about the Hatchery Hatchery F-----g Hatchery as if it been the only thing that works for regenerating a river. They never are able to get enough bloody eggs for theyre hatchery and its an insult to anyones intelligence that you can make the Tay bounce with salmon with the output of a silly wee underutilized building in Almonbank. You would need a Hampden Park size hatchery to drive the Tay if that was your only way forward. Pointing the blame at sawbilled ducks, hydro, seals, the size of the Tay, ocean mortality or whatever other excuse they can come up with for not addressing the basics (that we all know work) is what they are really good at.
How on earth can theyre be more tuned in & straight thinking individuals on a internet salmon fishing chatroom with the correct answers & concerns for the Tay's future than the elected people chosen to run Scotland's biggest (& un-tapped) salmon fishing asset !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One seriously angry gillie !!!!!!!!!!
Jock
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Post by sagecaster on Sept 30, 2007 14:05:39 GMT
Well put, and I feel for you Jock.
Fundamentally the facts speak for themselves. The rivers that have introduced C&R have benefited from doing so and the Tay Board by not introducing a C&R code is simply disgracing itself and being bl***y irresponsible.
Its really 30 years years since we've seen the whole Tay catchment "bouncing" with fish and it appears that the river board has presided over a steady degeneration of river stocks from the headwaters downstream in that time. Clearly, past management.... the net removals, hatchery etc, are not working. Its time to move forward.
Lets hope that this is the low point and that some action and not hollow promises will be forthcoming during the close season.
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Post by salmonnut on Sept 30, 2007 14:48:14 GMT
Jock, just a thought, why dont the responsible gillies start a petition and get the anglers who fish their beats to sign up, then present this petition to the board at their AGM. Im sure their are many anglers out their who would be more thean willing to sign up and support such an honourable and just cause. Regards SN
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Post by Willie The Gillie on Sept 30, 2007 15:44:00 GMT
I am honestly not so sure about getting enough gillies to support this essential C&R initiative. They're are too many of them who talk a good game but the same old story of only a small minority who are willing to actually do anything. I have asked a few of them recently about their views on C&R and I don't think most of them would support C&R. The majority of these guys are at the lower end and see some late action throughout the year so maybe that's why. I think that this sort of thing must be a board decision and a quick one at that.
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Post by salmonnut on Sept 30, 2007 15:55:03 GMT
This is dissapointing, when you think that the fishing is their liveliehood you would think that they would do everything that they could to protect their future employment, IE no fish, no job. Sad state of affairs. Dont despair and keep up the good work Jock. SN
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