RETURNING SPRING SALMON

[lomond]

Levenrod, presume you are the one who voted to keep all springers ?

[altmor]

williegunn said:

wemyssflee said:

Did you know anglers are the biggest killers of salmon in Scotland? Killing more fish than netsmen, food for thought.

I have never met an angler yet who has killed more netsmen than fish ! ;D

[builnacraig]

levenrod said:

Its a total nonsense and anglers shouldn't be acting as if their catches are in any way part of the problem, or the solution.

Totally agree with the points made by levenrod regarding other effects on salmon populations but I was disappointed with the comment quoted above. Anglers have a massive impact on stocks of springers. Research done on the large rivers such as the Spey has shown that the rods can take up to 40% of the early running salmon. On the smaller rivers I would not be surprised if it was even higher. Until stocks improve the default action for a springer should be catch and release. There are enough grilse or later fish to allow one or two for the pot.

[levenrod]

Builnacraig writes that 40% of spey spring salmon are caught by rods perhaps he could enlighten us on how he reached this figure ,as the spey board dont at present have an acurrate means of measuring the size of the spring run.

[williegunn]

levenrod said:

Builnacraig writes that 40% of spey spring salmon are caught by rods perhaps he could enlighten us on how he reached this figure ,as the spey board dont at present have an acurrate means of measuring the size of the spring run.

The Spey boards method of estimating the run is accurate based on the counter that was run and paid for by the Knockando Trusts money.

Do you have a better method for a large wide river? Are you prepared to fund this research?

[elwyman]

I've heard it said that 50% of springers on the Tweed are caught, so C&R must be very beneficial to maintaining the spring run.

[builnacraig]

levenrod said:

Builnacraig writes that 40% of spey spring salmon are caught by rods perhaps he could enlighten us on how he reached this figure ,as the spey board dont at present have an acurrate means of measuring the size of the spring run.

Can't find the reference to the Spey catches at the moment but the link below has very good data for the Welsh Dee where the findings were that up to 30% were killed by the rods in the spring. www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/acrobat/spring_sal_513101mon.
I think this highlights a bigger issue of poor communication or lack of trust between the scientists collecting data on our rivers and sections of the angling community. With stocks under pressure, mainly due to reduced sea survival, I don't see any alternative to scientific monitoring. From that monitoring simple management actions such as making sure that exploitation of vulnerable stocks are controlled (catch and release of springers) then these parts of the run can be protected. I am dismayed at the head in the sand attitude of large sections of the angling community!

[sagecaster]

I am dismayed at the head in the sand attitude of large sections of the angling community!

I agree, too many anglers have a "take take" attitude. I would support a 5year national C&R policy! Then we would really find out where problems regarding the conservation of salmon lies!

[Fruin]

Levenrod, not the initials JC, then?
The JC that I know, returns all his fish.

However, I do agree that anglers are usually the first attacked when talking about conservation of stocks, and we are usually, along with riparian owners, the only ones who put anything back into the system (in terms of time and money).

I've said it before, anglers C&R rates should be based on the anglers conscience and care for the future of the fishery. If it is proved that anglers cannot manage these issues themselves, then it is inevitable that local rules will be implemented to deal with the problem. It is just a shame that it is often a few selfish anglers that cause the rest of us to suffer the restrictive rules imposed.

[levenrod]

Fruin : the game's a bogie - guilty as charged - JC!!!

[levenrod]

Willie Gunn : Its evident from your comments, on the accuracy of Spey's Spring run, based on information from their counter, that you are not familiar with the river Spey and its tributaries. For a counter to assess the run of Spring fish into Spey, it would haved to be sited near Spey bay - not in tributaries or the upper reaches of this very long river. Feasability studies have repeatedly ruled out a fish counter in the Spey's lower reaches, or for that matter, the Tay. You ask if I have a better method of calculating Spey's Spring run. No, I don't, and, neither do they! As to funding research, I would at least verify my research's accuracy, before asking for funding in the first place.

[williegunn]

Levenrod The counter in question was situated on the Collie Pool at Delfur, a beat I fish on a regular basis in the Spring.
You might also to interested to know I have run Fishspey for the last 2 years so have a passing knowledge of the Spey.

[Fruin]

John,

I was wondering when you would pitch in on this board. Good to hear from you, I'll see you on the banks soon.
Did I see you on the Tay opening day; on the news?


Cheers,
Gary

[levenrod]

Springer,

WG says:
Anglers are the biggest killers of salmon in Scotland,
Anglers kill more salmon than netsmen.

Balnacraig says:
Anglers catch more than 40% of the River Spey's spring run.

Sorry......seals might have something to say about anglers catching more than them. They don't observe a closed season, eat kelts as well as clean fish and smolts; they fish every day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year and there are roughly 103 thousand grey and 29 thousand common seals round Scotland's coasts.

We also have illegal net fishing in the North sea and who knows what their take is!

As to 40% of Spey springers being caught by anglers, the Moray Firth Seal & Salmon Report (pages 2.3.5 to 2.3.6) states rod exploitation for seasons 2003-4 on the River Spey averaged 12%, based on extrapolations of rod catch figures. Even if we increased this figure by 100% for springers, it still wouldn't come to 40%.

Anglers are a major financial contributor to salmon fisheries.
Anglers support thousands of rural jobs.
Anglers maintained river systems, in my own area, for over a century.
Anglers are the very reason we still have salmon.
Please stop talking Anglers down - we are only giving more ammunition to the anti's -thats what I call SILLY.

[builnacraig]

levenrod said:

1) As to 40% of Spey springers being caught by anglers, the Moray Firth Seal & Salmon Report (pages 2.3.5 to 2.3.6) states rod exploitation for seasons 2003-4 on the River Spey averaged 12%, based on extrapolations of rod catch figures. Even if we increased this figure by 100% for springers, it still wouldn't come to 40%.

2) Anglers are a major financial contributor to salmon fisheries.
3) Anglers support thousands of rural jobs.
4) Anglers maintained river systems, in my own area, for over a century.
5) Anglers are the very reason we still have salmon.
6)Please stop talking Anglers down.

In reply
1) Assuming that the spring run is relatively small in comparison to the total Spey salmon run, then it is perfectly possible to get a much higher exploitation rate in the spring, within an overall exploitation rate of 12%!

2) Agree

3) Also agree

4) I'll give you that, but that is only necessary because of man's impact

5) Very true but lets not forget that if Scotland had no human population our rivers would be teeming with salmon. They are more than capable of looking after themselves and have been doing so for thousands of years.

6) Who's talking anglers down? All I am asking is that you acknowledge the impact that angling pressure can have particularly on scarce spring salmon and manage the fishery accordingly.

Builnacraig

[levenrod]

Willie Gunn

I sincerley hope you catch a few springers when you next fish Delfur. LUCKY YOU!

Im sure you are aware, the Hydro Static counter you speak of is no longer at Delfur or indeed operational on any part of the main stem of the river Spey. As you know it had been in use some time ago, but data was difficult to access due to altering river flows and the rocky nature of the river Spey.