Salmon or Sea Trout?

[elwyman]

Went to buy an inkjet cartridge today and ended up buying a new printer for about the same price!

Anyway, it has a built in scanner so I've scanned in a photo of a fish I caught on 26 June 1980 from the River Clwyd in N Wales. It weighed 5 1/2lbs, and was caught on a 12g silver Toby at 1.00pm.

This was the first migratory fish I had ever caught, and I must admit at the time I put it down as being a sea trout. Looking at it again, I'm not so sure.

Any thoughts?

For extra points, does anyone recognise the rod and reel makes?

[elwyman]

Yes Graham, I now tend to think it was probably a grilse - the shape of the tail and the spotting look more grilse than sea trout to me.

The reel was an Abu Cardinal, 60 I think.

The rod - you're probably too young to know Graham!

I might have told this story before, but I had hooked and lost a biggish fish in the same spot the previous evening. So I had an extended lunch break the following day, and the fish took 2nd cast!

[donnieW]

I think it has a seatrout look about it but hard to say for sure. ABU cardinal 40 - used one for about 10 years. Is the rod an old Milbro?

[elwyman]

Yes Donnie - a Milbro Spinwell, 7' solid fibreglass, bought in 1965.

Still have it in the garage - indestructible!

[elwyman]

The river was running clear, and only a few inches above summer level, when I caught the fish. It was bright and sunny, and I caught the fish at midday.

Experience now tells me that most self respecting Welsh sea trout would not take a spinner in those conditions- from a small river like the Clywd anyway.

The Clywd & Elwy used to get a small run of salmon in May/June, but they seem to run later now. I do recall it was a very plump fish, and a bar of silver.

PS for Springer - rod was first cast in the fast water below Wylam bridge pool - the water was far too shallow and I promptly lost the two new shiny ABU spinners bought with my hard earned pocket money. And yes, I suppose I was poaching at the age of 11!

[munrokiller]

Elwyman,

In 1980, I had the great pleasure of spending the whole year in the company of full-time Ghillie on the Forglen beat of the River Deveron Johnathon Taylor, then aged 86. As well as the many priceless stories, he also showed me amongst other things the sure-fire way of indentifying the difference between a Salmon/Grilse and a Sea-Trout. Disregarding the spots, square or forked tail, eye position in relation to the mouth all of which I may add have their merit. If you count the scales from the Adipose fin to the lateral line, A Salmon/Grilse has 10 and a Sea-Trout 15. Not an exact science but it has always worked for me if I've had my doubts. ( Hard to see from here though !! )

Definately an Abu Cardinal, very popular along with the Ambassador 6000 in those days.

[greenbanks]

Are you the son of Clive Gammon?

[speycaster]

the maxillary bone extends pst the eye so id say seatrout

[macsalmo]

I'd say a Sea Trout,
Although I once caught a lovely clean Grilse of similar weight, when I took it back to the hut, everbody said what a cracking Sea Trout it was

So what would I know .


Ps; It did take an Allies in the bright sunshine though

[macsalmo]

Sorry John, forgot to say its a cracking fish (what ever it is ).
I still have a Cardinal like that somewhere.

Gary

[chasb]

The reel is a cardinal 40 - got one when I was at school and still use it along with a 66 - proper swedish quality non of the far east rubbish we see to much of today.

The fish is definetly a rather nice seatrout.

[wilbert]

Its a bit of a tricky one due to the angle the photo is taken at but i will say its a grilse. It does have the plump look of a sea trout but the tail looks like a salmon and with a bit of an attempt to measure the maxillary bone it doesn't appear to go past the eye.

[edenman]

very sea trouty to me.

[JAD]

Memories...Memories. I used to own a Abu cardinal and a Milbro spinning rod many years ago and they are more than likely still up in my attic somewhere

Nice fish Elwyman

[lomond]

Looks like a Sea Trout to me. The tail of a ST can appear to be forked when photographed in this way. The tail would be squarer if spread out using your fingers. Also the wrist looks thicker than a Grilse's wrist. Head looks like a ST i.e maxillary bone past the eye.

IT'S A CRACKER ANYWAY.

[ibrox]

I would say a seatrout

[ryanol]

i would agree with what lomond said about the tail
sea trout

[Sloggi]

Elwyman,

Why did you think at the time it was a sea-trout? The way it fought or the way it took - perhaps, you'd need hindsight with this as you say it was your first migratory fish caught. What do the sea-trout and grilse from this river look like?

For me, I'd have to say it has the tail of a grilse but the head of a sea-trout. Taking into account the curved shape (been in a bag?) which may have altered the tail's shape, I go with it being a sea trout. Regardless of this question, with it being your first migratory fish it must have been unforgetable

[macsalmo]

Firstly, I must apologise for the trophy photo (flies on gill case) This was the first Grilse and Sea Trout I'd caught on the fly, fishing on the Annan.

I've only posted this as it does show all the differences between the two.
The top fish was a Grilse of 5lb and the lower fish was a 3.5lb Sea Trout.

[macsalmo]

Sorry the date was wrong on my camera, it was caught on the last bank holiday in August 2003.