drowning

[scotty]

After reading an artical about an angler drowning on the river tummel due to water being released from the dam it got me thinking what measures could be put in place to prevent this from happening again? it is now in the hands of some judge who has to decide if there is adequate warning signs in place, is this enough? i thought mabye a claxton but i dont think the locals would be to happy about that , apparently the water rose by 5" in a matter of minutes . any thoughts?

scotty.

[salmondan]

Without knowing the facts and circumstances of the article metioned, a tragedy without doubt, could this have been avoided by the use of a life jacket? Surely any discomfort or financial cost is far outweighed by the security that one of these devices offers.

I've never used one myself but will be buying one before I go fishing again this season, mainly due to stories like this and weed's experience (life preserver thread-tackle talk). I've never been the world's most confident wader, although even if I was, I think it would be a very sensible purchase.

As for the tummel, could water release times be printed on the back of tickets? Or perhaps a booklet such as is used by certain angling clubs for tide tables.

[scotty]

i also wear a life jacket when fishing a "substantial" river, but most people dont, silly thing to do

scotty.

[sinkingtip]

Unfortunately tragedies like this are all too common. I think Falkus in his seminal book 'Salmon Fishing' gave us all some potentially life saving advice which we should ALL heed. Should we ever take a tumble whilst wading (sorry cant find the book right now to extract the exact quote but it was basically - don't panic (easier said than done), mouth closed for fear of "shipping too much water", lie on your back and use your arms to maneuver yourself into a position where your head is upstream and feet downstream as you travel - apparently a large percentage of anglers have head wounds when eventually they are found giving rise to the conclusion that they have actually rendered themselves unconscious owing to their heads hitting a rock or stone as they are swept downstream before actually drowning. I think we should ALL take salmondan's advice and ensure that we are wearing some form of buoyancy aid when fishing heavy water - at least, if we are, the 'panic factor' should be lessened. As anglers our hearts go out to this man's family.

[granters]

I cannot agree more. My brother and i fish together all the time and evreytime we get back, my old man points out how glad he is that we're back safe. NEVER lose respect for the river is all i can say. I've fallen in once and it was not pretty, you'd be amazed at the how much a wee bit of water in your waders weighs

[bg110960]

I saw Falkus video "Salmon the Leaper" where he throws himself into the water to demonstrate this. Key is to keep head upstream and arms out float to quieter water and crawl out. I let my kids see it to help them understand what to do but unfortumately they couldnt stop laughing at Hugh flinging himself into the river fully clothed!

[robmason]

Falkus, and I quote:

I assure you that no matter what type of waders you are wearing or how they are fastened, when the worst happens and you find the water closing over you, there is no immediate danger.

A friend only last week gave me a clipping from The Times, July 18th 2006:Fisherman drowns as waders fill with water

Maybe he panicked, maybe he couldn't swim, but did the waders drag him down?

[ibm59]

This water release can happen on the Leven too , Granters. Take care. Water releases don't only happen at scheduled times and can occasionally be quite sudden. Saw a lad deep wading in the Floors 2 seasons ago nearly getting washed away in one of these sudden releases.

[para1]

I think the main difference with the Master jumping in with his waders on is, he knew it was going to happen.
Usually it takes you by surprise and the first thing you do is to try and stop yourself falling over by putting your hand down,result water over top off waders.
Correct me if I'm wrong but once your waders are full they do not drag you down because you are then nuetral (if thats the word).
The difficulty is getting out of the water with full waders.
I fished a beat on the Tweed where the gillie said the party before us had been dicussing in the pub the night before what to do if you fell in. The one that had been giving instructions to the others fell in. He was asked if he did what he had been discribing the night before, he said yes, the gillie told it a bit different,
he said all he could hear was this guy shouting for his mother. ;D

[castlikeaghille]

Good post. According to someone I know who was there at the time, when the father and son were tragically drowned on the Yokanga recently, it was the shock of the cold that got them even though they were wearing life jackets that inflated. This is not the only incident by a long way. Further, most people don't have the composure not to flap and panic - hence so many people drown in water of less than their own height.

Stellar league salmon fishermen like the late Francis Grant caught more salmon because they wade, for presentation purposes, to places we mortals would think are mad. The difference is they take falling in as an occupational hazard. They are used to it and react accordingly i.e. in Falkus Text Book fashion

So my point is a life jacket can give you a false sense of security. If it makes you feel more confident and you enjoy your day out more so becasue of it wear one. Better still is to actually practice falling in in a controlled environment so you don't panic if it happens for real.

Regardez

CLaG

PS Splash, if you read this post please can you update the readers with some of your adventures in this regard, and hence are known as....

[davewallbridge]

para1 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but once your waders are full they do not drag you down because you are then nuetral (if thats the word).

That's quite correct. Having your waders filled with water will not drag you down.
The water in your waders will have the same Specific Gravity as the water outside of your waders - i.e. it will weigh the same.
The same applies to any clothing that gets wet - although a towel soaked with water feels a lot heavier out of water, in the water it will be only the 'dry weight' of the material that will determine if it will sink or not.

As has been said, the real problem is when you try to climb out of the water with full waders (water has a much higher S.G. than air) and the best approach to this would be to crawl onto the bank/shingle and then turn onto your back and raise your legs to empty the waders before attempting to stand up.

Dave.

[ceilidh]

Many releases from Hydro dams are remotely controlled, according to water conditions, from locations which may be many miles away and will therefore not follow set times.
Some years ago I was fishing about 70 yards below the Kilmorack dam on the Beauly. We were anchored in midstream just above the Island and letting the boat down on the rope. Suddenly, with no warning, the sluices were fully opened, turning the pool into a seething maelstrom. There was no time to recover the anchor and within seconds our bows were being dragged under. Fortunately, as we were roping down we had a turn of the anchor rope around the centre thwart and also a sharp knife to hand. Going forrard to cut the rope would not have been an option.

Subsequent correspondence with the Hydro company revealed that the discharges, at that time, were remotely controlled from Edinburgh! There was supposed to be an audible warning, but no system failure alert to warn the control centre.

One of the most frequent dangers encountered in unexpected rises in water levels occurs when one had waded through deeper water to reach a much shallower spit where wading is easy and comfortable and a slow rise may not immediately become noticeable, until, that is, you try to return to the bank! The secret here in not to panic. If you know the places where you can usually cross with care remember that the water will (usually) be only a little deeper and although it may fill your waders it will not be over your head. Once your waders are full they will actually stabilise you so long as you do not lose your footing. Getting out of the water, however, is a different matter. If you can manage to deposit your jacket and all your tackle, except your wading stick on the bank you may be able to roll down your waders as far as your waist and this may make things a little easier. In addition to a lifejacket a whistle is a useful aid.

[salmondan]

ceilidh said:

Some years ago I was fishing about 70 yards below the Kilmorack dam on the Beauly. We were anchored in midstream just above the Island and letting the boat down on the rope. Suddenly, with no warning, the sluices were fully opened, turning the pool into a seething maelstrom. There was no time to recover the anchor and within seconds our bows were being dragged under. Fortunately, as we were roping down we had a turn of the anchor rope around the centre thwart and also a sharp knife to hand. Going forrard to cut the rope would not have been an option.

Did you manage to clean your underwear or just buy new?
That sort of thing would have given me nightmares.

[wilbert]

I have been reading this post with interest as I have taken the decision to ditch my life jacket when fishing as its too bulky and gets in the way. I have worn the England's doctor jacket for over 8 years every time that I go fishing but now I have lost my patience with the bulk and weight. This is not a decision that I have taken lightly as I have a young family but its a calculated risk that I am prepared to take. Without wishing to tempt fate I have never taken a swim whilst wading down a river although I did fall on my arse in 1 foot of water due to slipping on some algae which was pretty funny at the time.

If I am fishing a stretch of water that I am unfamiliar with or the wading is treacherous than I will probably put on the jacket but on my local water which is easy wading it will be staying in the garage.

[kercock]

We have a sign up at the huts offering the use of lifejackets for anglers safety. The ones issued are hydrostatic 275 N, they are triggered off when the mechanism is submerged at a depth of four inches. No chance of these going off in the boot of a car or in the garage,neither will they "go off " as you walk by the river on a very wet day. Mind you they cost nearly £200 a pop,but, how much is your life worth to your family. I have to say ,I don't find them to be in the way at all during the working day.
Points to ponder on.......... How many of the members who have their own lifejackets get them "MOT'D at the end of the season.??
How many members have taken out their gas bottles at the end of last season and remembered to put them back in this season??
How many members at the end of last season inflated their lifejacket bladder but didn't get the mechanism checked ??
How many members take their lifejackets to someone who has the qualifications to checkout their lifejackets ?? Failure on any of the above or all, will or could kill you ...............DEAD.
Get it sorted.
I have not seen anyone advertising that they do lifejacket maintainance,however IF you wish a number to call in the Tayside area for same ,send me a PM ,I will give you the number.
One more point for those who have their own'jackets ..Have you checked to see if the bottle is out of date or not ??

[ceilidh]

Salmodan,
There was so much water sloshing around inside the boat that it was like being in a DIY washing machine, so underwear was cleansed and retained! These days some people would probably have funded their fishing for evermore by sueing the Hydro company for mental trauma !

Wilbert, I share your general dislike of lifejackets and used to consider myself a reasonably competent wader, though I did take an occasional swim but without frightening myself too badly. It was only anno domini and back problems, causing a couple of recent involuntary swims with which I found it more difficult to cope, that made me begin review my ideas.
An angling journalist friend very kindly gave me a very small and neat "review issue" "Sospenders Safety Vest" which, for it's size, in addition to having manual CO2 inflation, has an amazing array of miniscule pockets, but two of which will actually take a decent sized fly box. This weighed very little and was comfortable to wear, so long,of course, that there was no need to wear any sort of weatherproof jacket on top of it. However, after reading this thread, I inspected it more closely. On the outside there was a label saying "SOSPENDERS made in the USA" and on the inside a larger label giving the date of manufacture and latest testing (10.2.1990) and stating, " This 'Shorty' is made by Sporting Lives Inc, plus their full USA address. There was also, however, another much smaller label, including washing instructions, which states MADE IN CHINA. Like you, and probably many of us, I would prefer not to wear a lifejacket unless this was light, comfortable, could be worn above, or instead of, foul weather jackets and had pockets to replace those which it might otherwise make inaccessible. On the other hand I am not totally convinced by those scientists who claim that drowning is actually a gentle death. How many of them have tried it for themselves?

[greenalert]

interesting article from Orvis

www.orvis.co.uk/detail.asp?subject=108&index=11&dir_id=441&cat_id=&group_id

[greenalert]

ceilidh said:

Salmodan,
There was so much water sloshing around inside the boat that it was like being in a DIY washing machine, so underwear was cleansed and retained! These days some people would probably have funded their fishing for evermore by sueing the Hydro company for mental trauma !

Wilbert, I share your general dislike of lifejackets and used to consider myself a reasonably competent wader, though I did take an occasional swim but without frightening myself too badly. It was only anno domini and back problems, causing a couple of recent involuntary swims with which I found it more difficult to cope, that made me begin review my ideas.
An angling journalist friend very kindly gave me a very small and neat "review issue" "Sospenders Safety Vest" which, for it's size, in addition to having manual CO2 inflation, has an amazing array of miniscule pockets, but two of which will actually take a decent sized fly box. This weighed very little and was comfortable to wear, so long,of course, that there was no need to wear any sort of weatherproof jacket on top of it. However, after reading this thread, I inspected it more closely. On the outside there was a label saying "SOSPENDERS made in the USA" and on the inside a larger label giving the date of manufacture and latest testing (10.2.1990) and stating, " This 'Shorty' is made by Sporting Lives Inc, plus their full USA address. There was also, however, another much smaller label, including washing instructions, which states MADE IN CHINA. Like you, and probably many of us, I would prefer not to wear a lifejacket unless this was light, comfortable, could be worn above, or instead of, foul weather jackets and had pockets to replace those which it might otherwise make inaccessible. On the other hand I am not totally convinced by those scientists who claim that drowning is actually a gentle death. How many of them have tried it for themselves?

Drowing is no way a gentle death, believe me, obviously I am not dead, but came very close to it 30 years ago in the North Sea
It is probably one of the most traumatic experiences you could imagine, it feels like you are being throttled

[kercock]

Five people wearing manually operated lifejackets "fell in "the Tay. Three of them could not find the pull cord ! They were (no joke ) searching on the wrong side of their body. Two of them actually forgot they were wearing a lifejacket ! Five more wearing their own automatic jackets had no bottle attached.
In recent times I have met six people whose bottles were out of date ! Scary innit???

[salmonscotty16lb]

Falkus touched on the subject of drowning and when he threw himself in river it showed how to do it in a ideal world. but i bet he didn't to it in march?
thing is i spoke to sandy from kinkell just after the angler drowned there couple of months ago
he told me it happened so fast the guy slipped in with no splash shock of cold he couldn't shout to nearest angler less than 50yards down stream
sandy thought the fact his ankle was broken was irrelevant as the water was so cold it would have killed any one