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Post by salmonking on May 17, 2007 17:16:10 GMT
OK folks,
picture this and thoughts please....you have booked a beat well in advance and traveled a fair distance.
Arriving at the beat on time and the water is spot on,you take the Gillie's advice on on flies and tackle etc and away you go.
After two hours you're having the best fishing experience ever
lets say landing number six ,1 chapped the rest back,as you release the last ,the Gillie calls time on your day.
Has this ever happened to anyone?
What was or would be your reaction?baring in mind it would not be the river/salmon welfare but the levy the owners would maybe end up paying.
col.
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Post by tyneandrew on May 17, 2007 17:19:27 GMT
I suppose i would make sure i found out before hand whether there are any time restrictions enforced, so i would not get a nasty shock when he came down pointing at his watch at 5pm!
Is it not just a number of Tweed beats that employ these restrictions?
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Post by salmonking on May 17, 2007 17:26:22 GMT
T A, This happened on the tweed in 2003 on bottom beats,not sure about other river systems,but i think I'd be terribly disappointed if it happened to me.
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Post by tyneandrew on May 17, 2007 17:29:34 GMT
I can imagine it was very frustrating, especially when you were not aware of the rule.
Not sure exactly why beats have rules like this (although have a few ideas). I am sure someone will comment why...
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Post by greenalert on May 17, 2007 17:52:15 GMT
OK folks, picture this and thoughts please....you have booked a beat well in advance and traveled a fair distance. Arriving at the beat on time and the water is spot on,you take the Gillie's advice on on flies and tackle etc and away you go. After two hours you're having the best fishing experience ever lets say landing number six ,1 chapped the rest back,as you release the last ,the Gillie calls time on your day. Has this ever happened to anyone? What was or would be your reaction?baring in mind it would not be the river/salmon welfare but the levy the owners would maybe end up paying. col. Do you mean calling time on your day after catching number 6 regardless of time of day? ie possibly 2 o'clock |
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Post by robmason on May 17, 2007 18:01:23 GMT
If it was that easy, I'd happily call it a day early.
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Post by salmonking on May 17, 2007 18:13:19 GMT
OK folks, picture this and thoughts please....you have booked a beat well in advance and traveled a fair distance. Arriving at the beat on time and the water is spot on,you take the Gillie's advice on on flies and tackle etc and away you go. After two hours you're having the best fishing experience ever lets say landing number six ,1 chapped the rest back,as you release the last ,the Gillie calls time on your day. Has this ever happened to anyone? What was or would be your reaction?baring in mind it would not be the river/salmon welfare but the levy the owners would maybe end up paying. col. Do you mean calling time on your day after catching number 6 regardless of time of day? ie possibly 2 o'clock After 2 hours you have landed 6,end of day . |
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Post by madkeen on May 17, 2007 18:21:57 GMT
You have paid for your day so I would expect a day's fishing although normally you share a beat so the other rods would obviously be encouraged to try the successful area.The beat owners can't have it all there own way too much fish off you get,oh the river is like melted caramac well still take your money thanks very much.
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Post by greenalert on May 17, 2007 18:34:27 GMT
If it was specifically stated on the permit or booking conditions that the Gillie could call a halt at any time & you had agreed to the booking conditions by accepting the booking, then not much you could do about it , however if not stated, me personally would politely tell the man to go somewhere & continue fishing
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Post by sagecaster on May 17, 2007 18:50:15 GMT
The tweed scenario was all to do with Fishery board levies. If for example the fishery board requires £50/FISH and you happen to land six fish for your £40.00/day and your mates are doing the same, then you can see how over a week or two the beat owner will be very quickly out of pocket. I've no idea what the actual Tweed levy cost is, however I do know of a highland river board that was charging £50/fish 5 or 6 years ago  |
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Post by castlikeaghille on May 17, 2007 19:51:03 GMT
If you look closely at the Ts & Cs of some well kent premium beats they often have conditions stipulating a minimum fishing effort level. Plenty of examples of kill limits, but can't say I've ever seen a daily total catch limit in salmon fishing in the UK. As a mater of general contract law in a consumer contract (England and Scotland): 1. Such a clause would typically be deemed unusual and onerous 2. Therefore, it would have to be brought specifically to the attention of the contracting consumer before the contract was concluded it the proprietor wanted to enforce it You can't bury such a clause deep within the the small print of FishHere.com. Such a clause would have to be clearly stated as part of the general promo of the beat. So on FishHere.com it would have to be one of the clearly stated rules on the main page along with max no of anglers, allowable methods etc. In the absence of the above, if a ghille suddenly announces this rule to you half way through a spectacular day's fuishin' politely point out to them that this will probably make the contract to fish void. Therefore, they will be required to return the entire cost per rod per day. Then, of course, there is the possibility of damages for negligent mistatement, emotional distress etc....and we haven't even started on the 'catch all' (I liked the pun) remedies under the Human Rights Act  Moral of the story...don't put up with this B/Sh*t if it is presented to you on the day of a lifetime - however remote a possibility that might seem this spring  Regardez CLaG |
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Post by easky on May 17, 2007 20:10:15 GMT
on the River Moy in Ireland there is a daily limit to the Ballina town beat (Ridge and Cathedral beats). In peak season you are allowed to catch 5 fish in total then you are off - you can keep your first 2 fish and if you catch a 3rd fish you can either release it and fish on for a max of 2 more fish or kill the 3rd fish and then you are off. The situation gets more complicated if you are sharing a rod as the combined total is still the same ie. 5 caught fish but you are allowed to keep an extra one ie. 4. I have fallen foul of this last year when it was not made clear by the ghillie - I had caught 2 fish and so had my friend - I then caught a 3rd and finished my days fishing (very pleased I might add). My friend started to fish again as we both thought he could catch and release another fish. At this stage the ghillie came over and said we had reached our limit. The ghillie had not made clear that we could keep an extra fish rather than a total of 6 when we started and although we were both happy it did leave a bitter taste in our mouth This was further compounded when the ghillie then sold our rod for the remaining part of the day and the guy got another 3 fish as they say you live and learn |
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Post by hornet on May 17, 2007 20:23:09 GMT
Nightmare Firstly, it would be good to be in that position but i would be either asking him to fakachy off or give me back my beer chits. Either way i would be mighty pissed off and it would certainly spoil one of those days you dream of. Sounds like a day ticket for the bows. Hornet |
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Post by castlikeaghille on May 17, 2007 20:29:27 GMT
on the River Moy in Ireland there is a daily limit to the Ballina town beat (Ridge and Cathedral beats). In peak season you are allowed to catch 5 fish in total then you are off - you can keep your first 2 fish and if you catch a 3rd fish you can either release it and fish on for a max of 2 more fish or kill the 3rd fish and then you are off. The situation gets more complicated if you are sharing a rod as the combined total is still the same ie. 5 caught fish but you are allowed to keep an extra one ie. 4. I have fallen foul of this last year when it was not made clear by the ghillie - I had caught 2 fish and so had my friend - I then caught a 3rd and finished my days fishing (very pleased I might add). My friend started to fish again as we both thought he could catch and release another fish. At this stage the ghillie came over and said we had reached our limit. The ghillie had not made clear that we could keep an extra fish rather than a total of 6 when we started and although we were both happy it did leave a bitter taste in our mouth This was further compounded when the ghillie then sold our rod for the remaining part of the day and the guy got another 3 fish as they say you live and learn As I read your post, your complaint is that when both you and your friend had killed (sorry you don't make it clear) 4 fish the ghille asked you to stop? If that is the case then that is simply an extension of the policy on one rod. If you have released 4 fish then I can't see what his case is and he might have been acting unlawfully. As for reselling a rod then that makes the point of a daily catch limit for conservation purposes a farce (but clever short term commercial opportunism). Regards CLaG |
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Post by easky on May 17, 2007 22:36:07 GMT
I might not have been clear, we had caught 5 salmon in total when asked to stop fishing (kept 3 and released 2). The point is the ghillie said as we were sharing the rod that we could catch an extra fish, what he actually meant is that we could keep an extra fish. We interpreted that he meant we could catch a 6th rod and so my friend was fishing on in the hope of catching it when he had to reel in . As I say we couldn't really complain but it does show the importance of fully understanding each beat's rules. |
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Post by zephead on May 18, 2007 21:08:32 GMT
Given CLaG' learned reply m'lud I would follow the advice of his wise counsel,however,after dram logic had set in I am afraid reverse commercial malice would consume me and after Tom Hagan,in the guise of ClaG had warned them of the error of their ways,Mr Corleone would take up an interest in matters piscatorial.
So.......................I'd book the beat opposite having firstly negotiated a super cheap deal given the capital value such proven fishing Gods would surely add to their beat.I'd the take out a full glossy ad in T&S informing other visiting anglers/tenants/customers of the dodgy Terms and Conditions of the beat I'd been removed from.
Hopefully I'd be in up to my nads in the Home Pool playing,with nonchalant ease and whilst smoking a fine cuban cigar,a tide liced 20lber which I'd give the "tarpon tug" to for a bit of added drama whilst watching the the bailffs turf out the owners of aforesaid dodgy beat as they couldn't run the joint at a profit due to tenants deserting them and from the ramp up in their 5 year levy average.
I'd then strike a pre-emptive deal with the Reciever's to buy it and fish contentedly with an invite issued to the tight fisted previous owners to have a day off selling the Big Issue and to come and have a grace and favour cast at prime time but inform them the terms of the invitation were strictly Catch and Release.
But then maybe thats just the third gin in the Trooties casusing anotehr strange movie to play in my mind again.............
DTYS!
ZH
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Post by windcutter on May 18, 2007 21:45:41 GMT
CLaG,you take me back to first year contract law.The basics are the basics as the professor said ,if there ain't "consensus in idem " there ain't no contract. In other words,as you have so rightly pointed out,if it's not all clearly agreed between parties what the contract is 'then there isn't any contract(leaving aside essential error etc.,)
Easky ,you are to be congratulated on keeping a relaxed perspective on your scenario,many others may have taken another view when your rod was sold!
As always "Caveat emptor"
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Post by salmonking on May 21, 2007 18:35:49 GMT
Speaking to a couple of gillies last week...they both stated that fishing would not be stopped,as long as the anglers were not taking the fish,though i did not push the question on how many fish would be sacrificed (1 rod) before calling a halt,fair doos i suppose.
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Post by juniorspey on May 21, 2007 21:50:28 GMT
have any of you fished the club water on th conon? I have, and caught my daiy limit with my second cast!!!
it was fine, as i knew that one fish is th limit, even if it is returned!
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