Ghillies help sought

[tyneflyfisha]

Hi !
having already straddled the first hurdle and got permission to create a couple of new salmon lies from the EA I am trying to find out as much as possible about the right way to do it.
For example - is it true that you should avoid creating white water in the wake of the rocks? Is there a particular way of positioning them in the current etc.
I would welcome your views as I'm sure that some of you will already have done this succesfully.
I have personally seen great results on the Tay where a simple addition of a large boulder instantly produced a productive lie in previously featureless water (13 fish in the 1st week). This is what we are aiming for (on a smaller scale of course) .
TFF

[elwyman]

I think there is a great deal of trial and error in attempting river improvements - building groynes/croys etc.

If you are just putting a few boulders in the river, I would suggest the 3 main factors to consider are:

1. Depth of water - no real point if the surrounding pool is too shallow.

2. Type of bed - fine gravel will scour out more than cobbles, but if you get it wrong, the boulder will fall into the scour hole and get buried!

3. Strength of flow - obviously varies with water height, but you should look for areas with a good flow and depth (3' minimum?) at normal fishing heights.

I suggest you use decent size boulders, so you can recover and reposition them if they don't work. Also, don't put the boulders on the wading line!

Best of luck!

[tyneflyfisha]

Elwyman

Many thanks

1 pool depth approx 5-7ft deep at summer level so hopefully ok?
2 cobbles (tightly packed) so hopefully not too much of a problem
3 this is more difficult but the idea is to create lies specifically for flow conditions when they should hopefully come into their own.

Good point about the wading ! (been A over T myself a few times when concentrating on the fish & not the wading so worth considering )
Try as I might I couldn't locate any up to date books or guidance on this so appreciate the tips very much.
TFF

[elwyman]

TFF, you asked:

"For example - is it true that you should avoid creating white water in the wake of the rocks?"

I read this myself recently, so it could well be true.

You say the water is 5' - 7' deep, which is a good depth for holding fish, but I think the boulder will only create a good lie here if there is a strongish flow - the boulder would deflect the flow around it and the fish would lie in the easier sheltered areas.

If there is not a strong flow, I don't think the boulders would be of much use in water of that depth. They might do more good in areas 4'-5' deep, perhaps in areas near the tail or the neck, where flows are stronger, and the gravel is more likely to scour out and form a pot for the fish to lie in.

I don't profess to be an expert, just applying some practical nous and fishing experience!

[ceilidh]

Have you tried googling for "River Engineers"? (There is probably a technical name for them!).
My predecessor built three large croys on my stretch of the river Liddle in 1985, but obviously without expert advice. He used 4' concrete cubes, which worked for a few years, however, most of these washed away, bit by bit, and are now scattered over a distance of more than a mile and, so far from improving the river, have actually spoiled some previously good lies.

[sagecaster]

SEPA used to consult River Hydrologists.... "river engineers"

Falkus wrote about why and what salmon prefer, and his observations were two fold. Physical barriers that running fish would lie and rest behind before continuing upstream ie that basically got in the way, falls, barrages, groynes, etc. Then there was a preferred salmon lie, ie a place that for no apparent reason fish would stop and rest up. His theory was that there was a fundamental relationship between water pressure, quality of flow and velocity which created the optimum comfort zone. Its way too long winded to explain here but its well worth reading( I think he even went on about Bernoulli's theorem!), I think its in his book on Salmon Fishing, it explains why the tails of pools are favoured and why fish tend to lie on top of stones and not behind them.

Eh.. not a ghillie, but do play at it occasionally ;D

[tyneflyfisha]

Thanks everyone for all the help, some excellent tips and plenty to think about. Good point about the concrete blocks, that sounds like a nightmare .I have noticed how effective that rocks located in the tail of a pool can be for what I presume are running? fish.

It is noticeable that many of the great Tyne beats also have some form of physical obstruction...Wylam,Bywell,Chesters Hexham etc. but doubt if the EA would approve of a similar setup elsewhere!
This will prove an interesting experiment so if anyone is interested I will let you know how it turns out.
TFF

[elwyman]

tyneflyfisha said:

It is noticeable that many of the great Tyne beats also have some form of physical obstruction...Wylam,Bywell,Chesters Hexham etc. but doubt if the EA would approve of a similar setup elsewhere!

Yes, a good weir always holds up the fish, but those heartless devils at the EA won't entertain one. ;D

There again, unless you fish the prime pools at Wylam, Bywell,Chesters Hexham etc, I bet you curse those weirs at times!

Let us know how it turns out.