Not on the fly .....

[paulsewin]

There is no shortage of excuses or reasons, you decide, why we can’t catch fish on a given day. This story may give you a new one.

Three years ago, I finally went to visit my angling guru, mentor and friend, Robert Gillespie, in Foxford. My intention was to learn the different methods that he used to extract salmon from the Moy. Note I wanted to learn how to fish, Robert wanted to make sure I caught some fish. This is my recollection of three days fishing.

I arrived in Foxford on Sunday evening and we decided to go down to Ballina. I was surprised and delighted to see it was high tide and a spring tide at that. The salmon were no longer trapped in the Ridge pool and could now move upstream. Good news as I was due to fish only a few miles upstream.

We arrived at the beat and loaded out tackle into the boat. Robert had brought so much equipment with him, shrimping rod, worming rod, spinning rod, fly rod and I had my fly rod. We motored upstream and pulled into the left bank.

The first thing to note was that we were now fishing a river which was 2 metres lower than normal spring levels.

I had the first of many casting lessons and then I asked for a demonstration of fishing Irish shrimps. Robert started his instruction and hooked a fish on his first cast, much to his embarrassment, because he didn’t expect a fish to be lying there. It came off.

I was then directed to one of the best bits of fly water. This is not the Dee, it was a slightly quicker flow than the rest of the canal like water. Within a few casts I had also hooked and lost a fish.

Then we tried fishing the bubble and fly. This method uses a spinning rod, fixed spool reel and a bubble float on the point with one or two droppers. The important thing for this story is that the flies are fished very close to the surface.

From where we were standing, we have a very good view of the flies in the water. During the course of the day we saw either 9 or 13 fish, I can't remember which number it was, rise to the flies and turn right underneath them without taking. Very instructive and frustrating.

Then Robert decided it was time to catch some fish so we crossed over to the other bank and had three fish on a worm in a very short time.

Next, Robert produced a spinning rod to show me how he spins for salmon. I should say that fish were showing consistently throughout the three days. I then fished for about 150 yards of water. “Amazing”, said Robert, “the river’s full of fish and not one of them is interested in the spinner”.

We got caught in one of the better thunderstorms I’ve ever experienced. We moved all the carbon lightning conductors, nets and anything dangling from our jackets into one heap and retired a safe distance to shelter under the bank. We were pelted with raindrops that felt like triple SSG shot for about half an hour.

The next day, the river has risen slightly, 3 -6 inches, but the colour hadn’t changed very much. When we arrived at our starting place on the beat Robert was reaching for the worming tackle when he announced that we’ll only catch stale fish today. Why? He explained that the fresh fish hadn’t experienced a rise in water levels before and it would put them off the take. I had never even considered this.

I didn't want to catch coloured fish so we fished a shrimp all day & managed to catch one fish right at the start, which Robert hooked and promptly handed me the rod. Right at the end of the day we switched to the worm again and had two fish very quickly.

Day three arrived and I was keen to use the fly rod again. Casting lessons had punctuated our previous two days. Again, the fly was totally ignored but we managed to catch two fish on the worm from the water I had just fished with a fly.

One of the other interesting observations was that as we arrived on one bank, the fish would stop jumping. We would cross the river and find the same thing happened. Robert explained that although the fish knew we were there, it didn’t stop them taking unless we frightened them.

Day three ended with a total of 6 fish, all on a worm.

So the three days had produced 12 fish, 11 on a worm & 1 on a shrimp. Nothing on a fly or spinner.

I phoned Robert about 10 days later and he told me the fish were now on the fly, I think his rods had caught 30 in the week after I left.

I am very aware of the spinner being more successful in high coloured water but this experience certainly gave me food for thought.

Over to everyone else now, to share any similar experiences.

Paul

[greenbanks]

Hi Paul

I would be grateful if you would please indulge me.
I would like to post the transcript of the tale of Robert's big Springer caught in early march this year if you've not heard the tale.
Can I say that ghillieing for Robert is really as much fun as fishing with him as described by you.
Let me let the tale unfold as memory recollects.

Well it was only a matter of time until we landed a big fish at Park on the river Dee this season. We have had 2 breakages in the last two weeks and one lunker lost because the hooks straightened out. But not today I am pleased to say, today was the day of the Celtic connection. Let me let the story unfold for you.
Mr Robert Gillespie from the Moy system, freelance ghillie and formerly ghillie Mount Falcon beat with his colleague Granville, manager of the Foxford beat on the Moy, arrived at Park beat today and were full of hope after coming a long way. Robert had been competing in the big casting tournament in Londonderry, won by Gordon Armstrong who I believe broke the world record with 69 yards and Robert said he came nowhere with only 57 yards .
Before we got going on the water I asked them to fish with 20lbs breaking strain and wee tubes 1 and 1/4 inches copper gold bodied Willie Gunns, which have taken over 60 per cent of my sides fish. I showed Robert his beat and took him then to the cellar pool to start and was encouraged by the fisher on the other bank advising that he'd seen some fish on our side. Robert commented that he thought the beat was really spectacular and he was looking forward to his fishing, little did we know how much he was going to enjoy his day. I left him to it and was speaking with his friend Granville who told me about the casting tournament in Ireland and commented that Robert was a lovely caster and very modest. I was really pleased as it meant we could cover lies that we wouldn't normally be able to. I went back to see Robert and saw him stripping in a lot of line prior to casting his shooting head system. I said "Robert if you can throw a really big line we could cover lies we haven't been able to" he looked at me, smiled and did a stylish snake roll and flicked out the line on the water to load the rod and did an overhead cast and let rip. It was sheer poetry in motion the line arrowheaded towards the heavens across the pool 30,40 50 plus yards and then it descended like a butterfly with sore feet on to the water. I commented that it was a super cast and we'd get over some more lies. The rod bent as the line tightened into the fish. Bump, bump the rod bucked and I saw this was going down to the butt. Instantly I thought big fish and it swam upriver slightly. Now the position where the fish was hooked meant there was no giving ground to the fish as you couldn't follow him so inside I prayed the fish would swim upriver, it did, phew thats a start I thought. Robert glanced at me and said "I think its a good fish and hope its not a big kelt" I agreed with him and looked at the blue flowing waters where the sunshine sparkled on the waters ripples whilst inside my mind I was sure this was a lunker. I admired the way Robert was playing the fish as he held it hard and didn't do anything sudden to scare the fish. He quietly encouraged the fish to come upriver.
After some time, perhaps 10 minutes I asked Robert what his biggest fish was and he commented 18lbs and a couple of sixteen pounders, his biggest springer was 15 lbs. I was pretty sure this fish would dwarf those Robert mentioned. I said "This could be a 20 lber" and smiled or was it a grimace that appeared on Roberts face. I had considered tailing the fish but decided I would get my net from my vehicle parked close by. I excused my self and quickly returned with the large gye net.
The fish bored deeply and ran across the pool a number of times, Robert diligently worked away and giving butt he encouraged the fish to come back across the pool. I asked him if he wanted me to call his friend Granville who was round the corner oblivious to the drama unfolding. I called Granville and said," Hi Granville its Ken the ghillie at the pool below you, can you jump in your car and bring your camera? Roberts into a very big fresh fish".
He arrived about 2 minutes later to join the scene and was thrilled to see Robert controlling the fish with great expertise, he showed no signs of panic although he suspected by now the fish was bigger than anything he had previously encountered. Suddenly in the pool below there was the first proper look at the fish and with the sun shining on the water the fish looked like a large golden bar. Absolutely mint fresh and big, very big. We were all enthralled by this magnificent salmon and admired its strength and courage and we hoped we would get lucky and land the fish to admire his beauty. Robert asked what he should do and I requested he walked backwards up the bank when it was time so I had my big gye net ready and was ready to lift into him if he came close enough. As Robert edged backwards on my cue the fish came towards me and quick as a flash I had him in the net. He was ours and as I looked at the massive crescent of a fish in the net I gasped at the depth of the fish. He was simply awesome, like a magnificent work of art and as hard as iron. We quickly removed the Loop double and took some pictures and measured him against the rod and got him back into the water safely, after a few minutes the mighty Dee fish swam off strongly back to the deeps. I was trying to stay calm inside as I knew that I might never net such a stunning looking fish like this again in my life. Huge spring salmon are becoming rarer and rarer each year but they are surely the greatest of all our game fish to look at.


Robert thanked me profoundly and I offered him my hand for the congratulatory handshake and as he took it I said "Welcome to Royal Deeside sir" I was so proud to have netted for my fisherman what in all probability is the largest fish caught on a salmon beat on the fly anywhere in Scotland, certainly on the Dee, this season. It was a beautiful fish and for its captor Robert a magnificent prize, which will no doubt become a tale of legend in Ireland for him. He had a smile as wide as the Irish sea for the next few minutes and it was a privilege to share his magic moment. He caught later in the day another fish of 7 lbs to provide the icing on the cake and his 2 fish were down to super skill and application from a talented angler. For the record the fish measured 39.5 inches long, was as fat as a pig and was covered in long tailed lice, easily 25lbs of the best fish you could wish to gaze on, never mind catch. It really doesn't get any better than this but at Park on royal Deeside the beat seems to produce magnificent fish most years, and to the fly as its a fly only beat, requiring excellent speycasting abilites to exploit the beats potential. For Ireland its been a super weekend, winning the triple crown, doing well in the casting tournament with 2nd and 4th places and this wonderful celtic connection. A magnificent Dee springer, well done to Mr Robert Gillespie, Scotland salutes you. ;D

[paulsewin]

greenbanks said:

Hi Paul

I would be grateful if you would please indulge me.
I would like to post the transcript of the tale of Robert's big Springer caught in early march this year if you've not heard the tale.
Can I say that ghillieing for Robert is really as much fun as fishing with him as described by you.

Kenny,

Thank you for your contribution. (you did PM with the story)

When a Royal Deeside ghillie writes about an angler in such a manner, it carries far more weight than my opinion as a friend and admirer.

I didn't want to embarrass Robert too much, you've met him and will understand what I mean, but his attention to detail was incredible. He discarded two thirds of the worms we had because they weren't right and we needed to visit three shops, buying shrimps in two of them, before he had the shrimps he was happy with. He tied the flies we used and makes the spinners we used.

His watercraft is unreal. We didn't catch a fish in any of the places I thought looked fishy and I was unable to "see" the subtle changes in very slow currents that denoted lies. Robert casually mentioned that years of Lough fishing had trained him to spot such things. Other places we fished you just had to know about and you wouldn't have seen.

When you consider that Robert was a self-employed guide and needed the same sort of detailed knowledge of every beat on the Moy, his knowledge and experience is amazing.

Your comments lend a certain credibility to this post and will hopefully discourage any doubts about my recollection of events and Robert's advice and observations.

The increased fly-only rule on many beats and rivers may exclude many people from contributing, but I think this story does have implications for those of us who fish multi method rivers.

Paul

[minitube]

I don't know if I should answer this, the above is all very flattering for me, though perhaps not depending on your view of non fly fishing methods. Of course this was some time ago and I now don't work on that particular all methods beat any more. Paul has been a good friend to me and I have learned quite a lot from him especially about Scotland.

What I want to explain is that the Moy is mainly a lough fed river on its lower reaches. People may be wondering why the fish sometimes won't take the fly in coloured water, especially spate river fishers. In my experience of Ireland there are three types of rivers, pure spate rivers, Lough fed rivers and Spring fed rivers. If I go to the Cork Blackwater, a pure spate river and it is dropping with fresh water and is peat stained I will expect to catch plenty of fresh fish on the fly but I would not expect to do so on the lower Moy, nor in a spring fed river that is coloured. If the Cork Blackwater was low and clear I would struggle to make contact with any fish at all but absolutely not on the Moy which often would fish very well in low clear water.

On lough fed and spring fed rivers coloured water is not good for fresh fish on the fly especially over the first half of the season but they do fish well in clear settled water and indeed low water conditions to the fly.

Later on the fresh autumn fish are not so fussy as the springers and grilse.

Every river is unique and has its own quirks. It is not always possible to know why, however to know what happens when is important and enough without exact knowledge of why as one may still act accordingly, the why is always speculation.


I'll start another thread on the Spate V Lough fed river subject.

[exerod]

paulsewin said:

One of the other interesting observations was that as we arrived on one bank, the fish would stop jumping. We would cross the river and find the same thing happened. Robert explained that although the fish knew we were there, it didn’t stop them taking unless we frightened them.

Day three ended with a total of 6 fish, all on a worm.

So the three days had produced 12 fish, 11 on a worm & 1 on a shrimp. Nothing on a fly or spinner.

An interesting point this, how do you know when you have crossed the line between the salmon being aware of your presence and frightening them?
If the fish didn't know you were there would they be more willing to come off their lie for a fly or spinner. Is one of the reasons for the effectiveness of the worm in this situation simply that the fish can pick it up without having to leave the river bed and show itself?
I've only had a couple of fish on nymph but from what I've seen as long as they stay on their lie they will eventually take if you hit them on the nose often enough even if you are standing in full view but they wont come off the lie to chase spinner or fly.

Andy