How do we choose a fly to fish with?

[paulsewin]

Are you confused about all the salmon flies available to anglers? Does the choice seem illogical? Maybe it’s just me …

For the purpose of this discussion let me make a distinction between the shape and method of tying (the style) of a fly and the colours used (pattern) of the fly. To keep things simple, let’s also assume the fly is going to be fished under the surface of the water and downstream and across.

What are the features that we think a fly needs to attract the attention of salar? Is it movement? Is it colour? Is it size? If so, size of what, hook, tube or dressing? Surely we should have found the combination by now but “new” flies appear every year and we all feel obliged to stock up with the latest killer.

Although it may help to be seduced by the “we catch all our fish on beat using xxx fly” we can’t ignore the fact that if fish are only seeing one fly, that’s the only one they can take. It is a self-fulfilling prophesy. The real question that bothers me is “would another pattern be even better?”

Red letter days are few and far between for most of us who don’t have the chance to fish the famous beats in peak season. Most of us feel happy to catch a single fish in a day but would we have caught 3 or 4 or even more if we’d used something else?

One of the charms of salmon fishing is that it is almost impossible to conduct any experiments that could in any way be regarded as scientific. We do have a lot of anecdotal evidence but sometimes this is confusing. Take the example of three anglers fishing the same pool, all using the same size and weight hook, all dressed in the same style (Ally shrimps) but using different patterns, all fishing downstream and across, and each catching a fish. What does that tell us? On that day the colour didn’t matter?

But what if they weren’t fishing the flies the same way? Does that mean that the presentation wasn’t important that day?

Even worse, what if they were fishing different styles of fly, with different patterns, in different sizes and presented in different ways? What does that tell us? Nothing matters?

To make matters even more confusing, we have a new style of fly offered to us, but only in one colour combination, the Flamethrower is a good example. I haven’t seen an orange Francis fly, why not? Orange features in so many other popular patterns.

Then we have other patterns that are designed for tubes but not dressed on hooks, or the other way round? How many of you have used a Munro Killer tied on a tube? If not, why not?

To preserve my own sanity I’ve come up with this strategy. I have chosen a number of patterns (colour combinations) and dress flies in different styles using these colour combinations.

So, for example, I have my yellow, black and silver pattern tied on mini plastic tubes (for low water), large aluminium and copper tubes (Eternal Optimist style – for big water in Spring and Autumn), plastic tubes Sunray Shadow style, hooks Irish shrimp style and hooks Ally Shrimp style. The problem is the number of flies you end up with. Multiply the above by a number of different sizes and then have 3 of each in your boxes and you see the problem.

Now ask yourself “how many colour combinations do you want?”

Are you confused now?

[salmonking]

Hi ,i try and keep it as simple as possible,ill guage what size i think will work for conditions,water height...look in my box
choose a fly i like the look of..and hope for the best,
if its not successful ill change in size,i dont think the pattern matters too much,if the fish is a taker,,chances are good no matter what pattern,in general i fish with what I'm confident with.

[williegunn]

Choose the right size for the conditions and tie it on, leave it there till conditions change. It is not the fly that is wrong but the fish.

[ibm59]

williegunn said:

Choose the right size for the conditions and tie it on, leave it there till conditions change. It is not the fly that is wrong but the fish.

Ah , but how do you define conditions?
Some folk havn't been at this game for as long as you.
Or me , for that matter.

[donnieW]

It's dead easy - open the fly box and there is always one that "jumps out" at you. (Not the one that falls on the ground, but the one that catches the eye). I do tend to stick with a fly for long periods of the day and am more likely to change depth etc. etc. etc.

[greenbanks]

It could be advantageous if you ask the Gillie for his advice,he usually knows best

[colliedog]

greenbanks said:

It could be advantageous if you ask the Gillie for his advice,he usually knows best

You must know better ghillies than I do Kenny

Personally I think fly pattern (note use of the word pattern, not size, weight or style) would be one of the least important factors in salmon fishing if it were not for the fact that if you have confidence in the fly you will fish more effectively.

It therefore becomes a matter of not so much the right fly for the conditions so much as the right fly for the fisher. One mans favourite may be anothers bogey. This is not to say that the general characteristics - size, weight, colour - of the fly don't matter but I think the detail (dressing) to be irrelevant.

I tie flies for one reason only - to catch fish. I don't care if they look pretty and I do't get much satisfaction out of tying grand creations for the sake of it. The criteria I set are therefore quick to tie, uncomplicated and durable - I don't want 20 minutes work to be anihalted by the first parr to grab hold of it.

At this time of year my most effective fly has a silver body (preferable a bare silver hook) and a wee pinch of black squirrel for the wing - no hackle, no tail. It certainly doesn't deter salmon grilse and sea trout from taking it and it's no great loss if I trash half a dozen in a day.

The flies that in various sizes make up the bulk of my fishing are

Black/yellow tube
Gold Willie Gun tube/wadington
Cascade Variant
Collie
Silver Stoat Variant as described above
Orange shrimp (refuse to use the A-word as it was in use long beforehand)
Black and Orange tube
Orange and white tube (undressed copper tube)

I confess to having have plently of other patterns in the boxes and a few specialities for tricky conditions. However if you took them all away and left the eight listed in a range of sizes and styles I would carry on with confidence.

Of course if it isn't in the water............

CD

[salmondan]

I'm with Donnie on this one, the fly of choice will make itself known as soon as you open the box, then (as CD says) send it for a swim and keep it wet for as long as possible.

Saying that, I have yet to catch a salmon

[castlikeaghille]

...usually with precious little thought about what we want to use it for. Flies fall into categories. Within categories there are variations. Categories are important to fish, variations are almost wholly and exclusively for the benefit of the angler.

The following are categories I suggest all fuishiers have and learn to fish with. Exactly how you dress then and in what colours is largely irrelevant - it's how you present them that counts. So, in no particular order:

Basic wets - either shrimp style, which with the long tail fishes level, or a standard wet that fishes hook down, and thus allows a mobile hairwing to flutter more enticingly. I use a cascade for the former and a blue black and silver with fluro red head and jungle cock for the latter.

Templedog Tubes (if I need a flee 1 - 2") I use them with adjustable cones for weight. I'd happily fish with a sort of Munro/Cascade Black, Yellow and Orange Cross for the rest of my days.

Big Flees - on rare occasions you need a flee of 4 - 5". This usually co-incides with big coloured water. So I use a Junction shrimp. Flees are tied on Waddingtons, Aluminium of Brass upto 3" tube (= 4 1/2 inch fly)

Mini - flees. Either 1/4" aluminium tube or size 16 trebble. If you pressed me on a pattern I'd say silver stoat with jungle cock.

Stripped flees - Collies/Sunrays in 3 - 5" wings

Czech Nymphs - have explained the multi cone head system used before

Skating/Hitched flees - I like the muddler tubes with a trailing hair wing in various sizes

Dead Drift - The Bomber reigns supreme

And finally...I'm experimenting with Frodin Discs. Can't say they are shaking my world but will persevere for the rest of the season.

Regardeth

CLaG

[macd]

castlikeaghille said:

...usually with precious little thought about what we want to use it for. Flies fall into categories. Within categories there are variations. Categories are important to fish, variations are almost wholly and exclusively for the benefit of the angler.

The following are categories I suggest all fuishiers have and learn to fish with. Exactly how you dress then and in what colours is largely irrelevant - it's how you present them that counts. So, in no particular order:

Basic wets - either shrimp style, which with the long tail fishes level, or a standard wet that fishes hook down, and thus allows a mobile hairwing to flutter more enticingly. I use a cascade for the former and a blue black and silver with fluro red head and jungle cock for the latter.

Templedog Tubes (if I need a flee 1 - 2") I use them with adjustable cones for weight. I'd happily fish with a sort of Munro/Cascade Black, Yellow and Orange Cross for the rest of my days.

Big Flees - on rare occasions you need a flee of 4 - 5". This usually co-incides with big coloured water. So I use a Junction shrimp. Flees are tied on Waddingtons, Aluminium of Brass upto 3" tube (= 4 1/2 inch fly)

Mini - flees. Either 1/4" aluminium tube or size 16 trebble. If you pressed me on a pattern I'd say silver stoat with jungle cock.

Stripped flees - Collies/Sunrays in 3 - 5" wings

Czech Nymphs - have explained the multi cone head system used before

Skating/Hitched flees - I like the muddler tubes with a trailing hair wing in various sizes

Dead Drift - The Bomber reigns supreme

And finally...I'm experimenting with Frodin Discs. Can't say they are shaking my world but will persevere for the rest of the season.

Regardeth

CLaG

CLaG re: the 'adjustable cone' can you elaborate please.

macd

[kenziemac]

Hello Paul, everyone,
Just goes to show that there are no definitive right answers.
If there were, catching old Salmo would be a piece of cake.
For my tuppence worth, flies are excellent at catching anglers firstly and Salmon secondly.
I should know, having sold thousands of the things, and I'd wager that most sit prettily in the box all of their lives, a few favourites get a swim from time to time and some even get a pull.
I suppose they really have a multitude of roles, our humble fleas do.
Retail therapy, works of art, pride and passion, who knows, But they do also catch a few fish.
I still do rely on the old tried and trusted generalisations (rules) ref. size, depth, temperature, etc. but sometimes, your gut feel, instinct, intuition, call it what you will, gets that pull right out of the blue and contradicts what everyone else has been doing that day, whether it's fly type, size, or presentation.
But as a few have already said if it ain't swimming it won't catch.
And as my old boy used to say when asked what he took his fish on:
"years of skill and experience, sonny"
That or luck, there really is no substitute some days.
Kenziemac.

[altmor]

Thought this one was quite easy - arrive at 8.45am on the beat - stop at the bottom of the beat on the way to the hut - ask the fish "what their favour of the day will be" - and then tie that on when you're tackling up at 9.00am ... or am I missing something ?

[ryanol]

i only fish 1 fly properly throughout a day but would sometimes change fly for 5 mins or so just to be different.ive caught all my fish on the one fly but cant tell you what it is
cheers ryan

[altmor]

ryanol said:

i only fish 1 fly properly throughout a day but would sometimes change fly for 5 mins or so just to be different.ive caught all my fish on the one fly but cant tell you what it is
cheers ryan

Can you post a pic Ryan - we might be able to help with the name of the fly ?

[rennie]

Eh up dude,you need nowt else but one of those gurt Black and Very Yellow tubes wot I gave you,remember if they cant see it they cant take it.Yours with only one pull for the season(shows wot I know eh) Pedro.

[Fruin]

Choosing the first fly is easy. You trun up, you get the temp, you look at the colour, you look at the sky, you look at the surroundings and the bottom of the river, think about previous victories and say "that one there will do".

Choosing the next one when you've not caught anything is a bit harder - you say "right, we went all text book for the first one and it didn't work, maybe we'll go brighter and smaller, or larger, or heavier dressed" - whatever your gut tells you.

Changing after that can have you in tears as you think about anything from the subtle to the ridiculous.

It is all down to experience and confidence. If I am fishing a river/beat that I know in familiar conditions I will happily fish with the same set up all day. Put me in unfamiliar circumstances and I can tie myself in knots thinking about line and fly choice.

Then there is the speed at which to present the fly