Success in Low Water

[dazko]

Hello people.

My first post to the forum so I thought i'd start with the session i had on the beautiful River Dart, Devon this sunday.

I went to the River on saturday full of enthusiasm and optimistic as ever. September is the prime month for a Salmon on the Dart, with most of the seasons catches coming during this period.
I didnt fish this day just doing some research on the likely lies and how to fish.

The water was the lowest I had ever seen it but undeterred I decided to purchase a ticket and go early on the sunday morning.

The Dart is your classic spate river. Fish need the water to be encouraged to move and minimal Salmon fishing is done at any other time than a spate fining down.

I arrived at sunrise, and made my way half way down the beat and tackled up with the spinning kit and my favourite lure the Toby. I deduced from yesterdays look at the river that fishing the main pools was going to pointless so I aimed for the tiny runs, and pots underneath a tunnel of trees flicking the Toby upstream and was eventually rewarded with a beautiful fresh run 6lb Grilse after an hour or so. As i unhooked the fish and quickly measured it dawned on me that I was in a different pool 10 yards down!! I remembered The fish had run the current and it was hard to hold the little devil. The fish was quickly released and swam away powerfully back to its lie hopefully the wiser for its experience.

My first Dart Salmon in a very long time!

After a few more hours of trying pools and runs I tried a deep shaded back eddy and was rewarded with a tartan coloured cock fish of about 9lb that took an age to land as I had to pass the rod around trees and encourage the Salmon to be beached 20 yards from where it was hooked. After a minute the fish was unhooked and swam powerfully away.

Catching a brace on the Dart in a few hours is a rarity these days even in perfect conditions, but in low water with the sun shining down, even more so!

The events of the day got me thinking and i deduced the following which led me to believe why success came my way:

- I had started the day at first light. What better way to greet the day and have a throw, in low light conditions Salmon seem to be better takers.

- I was well hidden and was downstream of the fish at all times. Very important, especially on a crystal clear low spate river that hasnt seen water in about three weeks.

- I used the shade to my advantage. I like the fish had chosen to fish those areas surrounded by trees. A bastard to cast to at times but definitely worth it.

- Renaissance work. Get undercover, act like the SAS and try and locate your quarry. If it means climbing a tree or crawling on your front to have a peek at something then do so. Just don't let the fish see you. If your cunning enough and have patience you'll soon see a tail poking out behind a rock or a shadow sitting quietly on the river bed.

- Belief. Quite possibly the most powerful tool in low water conditions. You have to think fish to catch fish. There was a cracking article by Philip Fairchild in T & S last month, if you haven't read it do so.

Time spent on the river is never wasted, make the most of it!

Some of these hints and many others i've picked up from this forum, so I owe you guys one.

I'll post a few pictures of the pathetically tiny runs where I caught the fish and the Salmon themselves later on today.

Spate fishers unite

[salmonking]

Well done dazko,,,better if you had got them on the flee though
look forward to the pics

[dazko]

Cheers SalmonKing.

I'm not against the flee at all, there is nothing more graceful than watching a fly being cast and a fish taking it. But for the river i fish is awkward to get the fly rod to do what you really want and the spinner allows you to exploit what little space there is.

I'm tempted to try larger rivers with the fly, but i just can't tear myself away from my local river.

I think some people regard spinning as the easier of the two, however as i've learnt over the years it too needs mastering just like the fly.

[parkhill]

Hello Salmongking,
You have got me intrigued and wonder if I am missing something.dazko seems to have had a nice day out so I wonder why you think it is a pity he did not catch his fish on the fly.

[sealicer]

Here here Parkhill, spinning is AS skillful (if not more) as the flee.

[Willow Man]

I think the comment by SalmonKing was due to fly fishing for salmon being the most respected form of catching the species.
It has always been the case that if two people catch say a 20lb fish each and one was fly caught and the other on the spinner then the fly caught one is regarded as the better result!
There is more skill in catching salmon on the fly than the spinner though both do have there own challenges.
Also fly fishing for salmon has more kudos than spinning.
I do both but have a greater pride in fly caught fish!

As with Dazko`s post, it all depends upon what the conditions allow. So if spinning is all that can be done then fine. But if there is room for that wee flee then..............................................

Regards WM

[salmonking]

I had an outing in low clear water early on this week,,3 on the guage,,had 3 fish,,all on these home tied 16's,,im not taking anything away from the guys good result,,just think the fly is as above

[severnfisher]

I know this one is as old as the hills but.....

There is more skill in catching salmon on the fly than the spinner though both do have there own challenges.

Sorry, but don't agree. There are some technical aspects to fly casting that for most people take longer to learn than casting with a fixed spool reel, but even then, there is bait casting and baitcasting. I know of one 'spinning lie' where to catch a salmon requires the lure to be cast to a two foot square hole in some bushes at 50 yards so that the lure can sink and comes round across the fish rather than lands on their heads.

Stalking a 20lb salmon in a clear water gorge pool and hooking it on worm or shrimp will normallly involve more stealth and applied watercraft, and balls of steel when it comes to playing it, than is involved in landing a 20lber after you've 'whammed the fly out and let it come round' (to coin a phrase, no offence intended) on a big wide open river.

I love fly fishing, because it is the most active, tactile branch of salmon fishing, and I'm proud to account for a fair proportion of the fly caught total from my local river. However, the idea that my catches should be more respected, than some of the bait anglers on the same river strikes me as a bit, well, er snobbish....

Consider this real case.

Angler A is a recent convert to fly fishing, he considers catching a salmon on the fly to be the pinnacle of angling achievement. He is a nice affable man. A genuine decent bloke. I feel bad saying some of what I am about to say about him, but it is nothing I haven't said to his face. In his first season A puts in a tremendous amount of effort in terms of hours on the bank and manages to landan 8lber. The other members of the small band of 'local' salmon anglers are all genuinely delighted for him.

However, A's poor casting, bad wading and hogging of the pools ( he fishes the 'best bits' on my local stretch every morning and teatime) is proving anti-social as far as other fly fishers on the stretch are concerned. Some even adopt the policy of looking for his car and then fishing elsewhere hoping to find water where he hasn't waded through the lies or slapped his line repeated on top of the fish. In fact a mate of mine who had the next day off work, went down to salmon fish the Severn one evening, found A doing his usual routine, got back in his motor and did the extra 3 + hours to the lower Teifi!

Angler B is considered the local rascal. A very successful bait angler, he is the subject of much bankside rumour and gossip.

One afternoon I managed to get down the river while A was away on holiday and not doing his normal impression of a baby hypopotamus with a bull whip. I was fishing down a run and thought I saw a fish move above me, just breaking surface in a spot above where I'd got in. Not a big show, maybe the slightest bulge from his back. I thought to myself 'fish the run through down to the drop off and then try for him'. Meanwhile B was bait fishing 150/ 200 yards downstream of me in the favourite spot in the 'pot'. Before I could get another cast out, and while these thoughts are going through my mind, B is up the bank and walking upstream, he indicates that he will follow me down. Yes he had seen the fish move, from maybe 250 - yards away . Concealing himself behind a bush on the far bank, he hooked, but lost a good fish on his second run through with the worm. I was kicking myself, for not acting quicker and fishing in a routine 'lazy' way. Patient observation married to quick decisive reactions, like that shown by B can be the difference between success and failure on hard fished association water.

What was happening was that the fish were becoming agitated by a very slight rise in water from a dam release. B reacted to it quicker than I did having noticed both the slight rise and then the fish. Both B and myself had to go just after he lost his fish, but I was able to return at dusk and got a fish first cast from the same spot.

Since A's return and regular deep wading, the spot has not produced another fish despite repeat conditons occuring.

If A manages to connect with a 20lber while fly fishing ( Crawford Little and chimpanzees on the Spey come to mind), why on earth should it be a more respected catch than any one of Bs numerous 20's on the worm, shrimp or spinner?

Tom

p.s.
yes of course we have tried to quietly advise A on tactics, wading lines, some casting tips and the need for lessons etc etc. Horses and water....

[Willow Man]

Tom,
I have fished for salmon for 35 years and had fish to 35lb on the fly.
I have also had fish to 21lb on the spinner.
I always feel more satisfaction catching salmon on the fly than spinning, etc.
I myself have even said `It is a big fish but I caught it spinning`.
The fish will get good praise but not like if it was fly caught.

To fly fish for salmon puts a person in main game where as to spin for salmon well it just is not in the same league.

As for being snobbish well maybe I am to some, but that would depend upon where you place yourself on the social ladder!

Regards WM

[severnfisher]

Hi Willowman,
It is true that it is generally considered that salmon on the fly are superior. I wouldn't disagree with you on that. I also liked your example of your own 21lber on a spinner as an illustration of how anglers who are not strictly 'fly only' consider the fly to be superior. It is also the case that large sections of the best rivers are exclusively 'fly only' and therefore by definition make up the 'main league..'

However, just because it is widely held that the fly is superior it doesn't make it so.

What is the basis on which the fly is held to be superior?

Some say because the skills involved to do it successfully take longer to master, than casting a fixed spool reel. Others because it is less efficient and therefore more 'sporting'.

For me, there is one way, and one way only, in which fly fishing is superior: I find it more fun.

I prefer fly fishing because it is active, tactile and rythmic. I enjoy the whole process from fly tying to fish. Personally I don't like spinning as it feels all too mechanical and actually prefer bait to ironmongery.

However, I use whatever tactics fit the conditions. If was fishing on a river like the Tweed, I doubt that I would ever want to bother with anything other than a fly, however, if I was on the section of the Dart I presume Dazko is talking about I'm not sure what, if any opportunities, would be open to the fly.


It would be an interesting study in applied angling skills to put a team of crack speycasters on a tiny overgrown spate stream in Devon or Wales in conditions of dead low water and see how they got on. They could use any method, including fly at night. Their only food would be what they catch.I suspect that the raps would be out within the hour. Followed by the worms.

To put it bluntly 2 from the Dart in dead low water on spinner obliterates three from the Tweed on fly. Well done Dazko and keep posting.

Tom

[clwydman]

I have to agree with severn man, you will see far more river craft from a 'successful' bait fisherman than the 'average' large water fly fisherman and water craft needs increase as the rivers you fish get smaller. However the importance of knowing the river you are fishing could be more important on the bigger rivers as the fish could be anywhere as opposed to 'in the pools' on smaller spate rivers. It is the ability to get to the pools on these smaller rivers, without spooking the fish and present a bait to the fish.
With regard to the words ' fly fishing snobbery' I have to say that this comes from the 'purists ' amongst us and every club has them. The angler that is on the water whatever the conditions with their fly rod insisting that they will never use anything else.
Each to their own I say. Personally my most enjoyable salmon I have ever caught (apart from the first of course) was a fish I caught this summer. The river was up about 2 ft and I was trotting a bunch of worms through a pool when a lovely fish covered in sea lice took. After a lengthy battle, my father slipped the net under a beautiful 10lb bar of silver.
Why so special, well it was because my father was going into hospital the next day for a quadruple heart bypass. A special moment before a very worrying time for the family. It is moments like this that give you a perspective on life. Worm, spinner, fly, who gives a s***


(oh by the way Dad is fine and chomping at the bit to be allowed out fishing again soon)

[dazko]

Sorry to disappoint you Willowman but there are no leagues in Salmon Fishing.

No one method is better than the other. Quite simply because you cannot apply it every condition that you might fish for Salmon during the season.

I think you are getting confused with something called 'Personal preference'. And yours is obviously fly.

Each method has its own merits and a requisite skill set to ensure that the method is fished successfully.

Please don't think that spinning is just a case of chucking a spinner across and turning the handle. Its far from this. On a small spate stream you need to have the ability to cast to places the size of a dinner plate to get the lure working correctly. It must be remembered that in challenging times you only get a few opportunities to do this and with spinning you can't false cast.

I'm in the belief that a successful Salmon fisherman is one that can fish a variety of methods in a variety of circumstances. That way he can attain the greatest success and spinning quite rightly should be part of the armoury.

I'll leave you with one last capture a few weeks after the brace....

It was lunch time and I was sat on a rock eating a sandwich. I had not seen a Salmon all day. It didnt come as a surprise as the weather was hot again and the water was low. Suddenly out of nowhere a Salmon splashed further upstream just below a bunch of trees at the bottom of a small run in a place that i would normally walk past. I quickly picked up the rod clambered over some rocks and placed myself directly downstream of the fish. What I was looking at was not pretty. The run was about 6 - 8 feet wide, 3 feet deep with over hanging branches on its right hand side. The spinner had to be placed in a small window under the branches allowed to sink for no more than a second before winding back. I would have loved to fish it from the other bank but thats private water. First cast - nothing. Second cast - nothing. Third Cast - I had him..! A 5lb cock Grilse, very coloured and exhausted. It took a good ten minutes to recover and swim away.

In this case the spinning rod had it merits. There would have been no other way to tempt this fish as there was no place to cast, no way I could approach from above as the run was covered in trees and any other method would have skated above the lie due to the run being fast.

This was the only offer I had all day and it payed off. I checked the lie out later in the day as i was walking back to the car and it was crystal clear and empty. The fact that i had tempted a single fish from the lie gave me a good feeling inside. I like this sort of fishing it makes your heart beat and gets the adrenalin pumping.

For those of you who like pictures go here:

www.dartaa.org.uk - click the Catch Reports tab.

[ianjones]

I have fished the Teifi a medium sized not so classic spate river for over 20 years and personally for me its the sheer challenge of catching a fly caught salmon, its not an easy disipline and certainly not a river with classic fly water but i catch fish, and able to succesfully release the majority. Whilst i spin when fly fishing is totally impossible, I ceased bait fishing a long time ago and would rather not fish at all than gut hook a stale fish.
Ian

[dazko]

Sorry Ian forgot to say i don't go fishing for stale fish that is unsporting.

The fish jumped far upstream from where I was having lunch so I couldnt tell whether it was fresh or not.

As for gut hook thats not me either. I use debarbed singles on ALL my spinners so the fish can be easily released. Its a requirement on the water I fish. And i fully support it and find that my hooking ratio than a treble is better.

On checking my diary I see it was hooked in the scissor.

[highplains]

Well said Sevenfisher!

[Willow Man]

It would be an interesting study in applied angling skills to put a team of crack speycasters on a tiny overgrown spate stream in Devon or Wales in conditions of dead low water and see how they got on. They could use any method, including fly at night. Their only food would be what they catch.I suspect that the raps would be out within the hour. Followed by the worms.

To put it bluntly 2 from the Dart in dead low water on spinner obliterates three from the Tweed on fly. Well done Dazko and keep posting.

Tom


As with Dazko`s post, it all depends upon what the conditions allow. So if spinning is all that can be done then fine. But if there is room for that wee flee then..............................................



Tom,
Like I have already said the conditions dictate the method but the fly caught fish has more going for it!

Thanks WM

[severnfisher]

Ian,

I don't know the lower Teifi very well, but from what I've seen it is a completely different proposition to the Dart section in question. Even one of the Teifi gorges I've fished, though a wee bit tricky in places, could be covered with the fly if the angler is so inclined. You are dead right to recognise the fly fishing opportunities that a lot of Teifi fishers seem to pass by.

As for deep hooking, that is only a product of bait fishing when people deliberately give the fish time to swallow the bait. Carried out concientiously, with a quickish strike after the first proper draw, a gut hooked fish is probably less likely with worming than it is with the fast stripped collie dog.

Tom

[severnfisher]

the fly caught fish has more going for it!

A higher IQ? better breeding? looks?

[Willow Man]

A higher IQ? better breeding? looks?

Thanks Tom, did not know that you had seen me? ;D


No like I said in a previous post, a fly caught fish is more worthy than a bait caught one.

Guess it could be an indication of class/social standing but anyone can fish for salmon using a fly.
Only today I spoke to a gentleman after I landed my fish and his words were`Never caught a salmon on the fly, only on the spinner`.
I asked why he said this and was told that`it would give greater satisfaction to know that the fish was caught on a fly, as the fly is the king of fishing methods and only fitting for the king of the river`. These were his words not mine!

Guess there will always be a divide between which is better or even to agree they are equal.

If you were given the choice of methods which would produce the same results for the conditions on any given day (use of Fly or Spinning)which would it be?

Regards WM

[ianjones]

I dont begrudge a man a fish be it caught by any method, however having been brought up on traditional welsh means of catching salmon ie spinner and worm, i have found the latter has a massive disadvantage when it comes to releasing fish whether you strike early or not, sometimes they are lightly hooked, more often than not deeply hooked and when fishing towards the end of the season or in difficult conditions when water is low the chances of hooking a stale fish that should be returned is high.