al44
Member
Posts: 69 
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Post by al44 on Apr 29, 2007 20:27:26 GMT
I had a thought recently that many times you hear people ask if certain lines will fit their reels, and if so then how much backing will they get on as well. Many manufacturers give little real information to properly guide expecially with the different spey line head lengths and backing types available. How many times have you bought and loaded either too much or too little backing and had to start again?
Thinking about this it would be a good idea to start a register of lines against reels where people record what they use with actual backing line capacities.
The information would be:
- Line manufacturer, type, rating and head length
- Reel manufacturer and model
- Backing manufacturer, BS and type (dacron, micron, gel spun etc)
- Metres or yards of backing loaded (the reel has to be fully loaded with line and backing, not half full)
Maybe this could also compliment or run alongside the Line Pool?
The important thing is to put in all of the information, but NOT to wildly guess the backing amount, you can generally be accurate to within a few yards by estimating how much backing is left on the plastic spool. "I recon it's about 150 yards" is not really much good.
If this thing kicks off then could someone with a bit more IT knowledge give a hand on pulling all this together into some form of matrix on the Forum? Spreadsheets are no problem it's the posting bit.............!
So to kick things off:
Lee Wulff Triangle taper #10 floating 80' head
Lamson Velocity 4
175 yards 30lbs Airflo Micoro Poly backing
Lee Wulff Traingle taper #10 intermediate 80' head
Lamson Velocity 4
165 yards 30lbs Airflo Micro Poly backing
Airflo Traditional #9/10 floating 85' head
Lamson Velocity 4
165 yards 30lbs Airflo Micro Poly backing
Scientific Anglers Mastery #10/11 floating 77' head
Penn International 4
320 yards 30lbs Orvis quick sight fluorescent dacron backing
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al44
Member
Posts: 69
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Post by al44 on May 10, 2007 16:04:00 GMT
I get the impression that this was not such a good idea!
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toucan
Member
A flock of toucans
Posts: 84
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Post by toucan on May 10, 2007 18:29:55 GMT
I think this was very nearly a great one  The trouble is I don't know what the length of backing is on my various reels and measuring that now would involve making the children run around the football pitch opposite with a hook in the back of their running shorts. Frankly I'd rather go fishing. However, a friend once suggested what seems to me a better way: It is not too hard to calculate the volumetric capacity of reels. (r o2 - r i2) x pi x width. Reel manufacturers could easily provide this information to a high degree of accuracy from their original drawings. Line manufacturers should tell us the volume of their lines, again they can calculate this from the profiles. Deduct one from the other and you know how much space is left for backing. The volume of backing is given by the length multiplied by the cross-sectional area (pi x r 2). So if you know the diameter of your backing, and it is relatively incompressible (possibly a problem), you could calculate the distance precisely. It all seems a good idea but not worth a stuff if the manufacturers aren't interested. Mark |
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Post by para1 on May 10, 2007 19:00:30 GMT
Put the line on first then the backing, then reverse on football field or similar. Don't try it in the house. A wee bit easier for me than "volumetric capacity of reel".  Another method is if the new line is in coils, fold the coil in half then place tightly round reel spool, mark where it comes to and fill to mark with backing. Usually quite accurate. |
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Post by wilbert on May 10, 2007 21:37:04 GMT
In the past I have used a method similar to that of para1 when a large amount of strong gelspun backing was required. All you need is 2 similar sized reels and 2 rods and about and hour of spare time. Wind fly line onto reel then as much backing as you can fit on the reel. Tape the butt sections of 2 rods so that they are opposing each other and fit reels then place the backing through the eyes and tie backing onto empty reel, then set drag on reel with all the line so that the backing is going on under a fair amount of tension to prevent any jamming of the backing when into a big fish, this is important when using gelspun backing.
In the past though most of filling a spool with backing and fly line has been down to guesswork and hasn't been far wrong.
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toucan
Member
A flock of toucans
Posts: 84
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Post by toucan on May 11, 2007 9:46:04 GMT
The two-reel plus line winder technique gets the right outcome - but I think it would be good to know the capacity of reels more accurately and how much space the different lines take up. This is particularly true for longer belly lines which might test the capacity of many reels. The usual DT10 + 150 yards isn't very helpful.
Sorry for the maths, para!
Mark
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Post by glisters1 on May 11, 2007 10:30:30 GMT
Two line winders are a great help
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Post by charlieh on May 11, 2007 11:02:00 GMT
Sorry, missed this the first time round. I agree with the idea in principle, and have been putting it forward for some time - here's a thread I started on the Speypages board back in 2002. www.speypages.com/speyclave/showthread.php?t=7890Like Toucan, I don't know how much backing I have on my reels; they are almost all loaded from bulk spools so it's difficult to calculate, so I'm afraid I don't have much detailed info to contribute. Incidentally, I use 30lb dacron on all my salmon reels. What I can say is that, among the reels I own or have looked at, the capacity of a Marquis 2 is broadly similar to that of a Magnum 200D, a System 2 12/13 and also a Dynadisc 10/12, and I think these will all take a 10/11 Carron 75' head floater and a decent amount of backing. The Marquis is a little larger in diameter than the others, but not so wide. Among large arbour reels, the Koma and the Vosseler S3 are similar in size to each other, and noticeably smaller than the group mentioned above. They do not have sufficient capacity for this size of line, IMO, but will take a 65' 10/11 intermediate, and a 9/10/11 Windcutter seems OK too. |
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Post by para1 on May 12, 2007 7:48:48 GMT
The two-reel plus line winder technique gets the right outcome - but I think it would be good to know the capacity of reels more accurately and how much space the different lines take up. This is particularly true for longer belly lines which might test the capacity of many reels. The usual DT10 + 150 yards isn't very helpful. Sorry for the maths, para! Mark No offence meant Mark. |
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Post by dangler on May 12, 2007 15:18:39 GMT
There seem to be two basic problems;
1) will a given reel hold a particular line in the first place
and 2) assuming the line fits, how much additional backing will it hold.
Both these problems are exacerbated by the huge variations in lines and backing.
Line volumes vary through type, (DT WF Spey etc.), density (float, inter, sink etc) and length and even between manufacturers.
Backing volumes vary by type and breaking strain and possibly other factors.
What is common to all, reel, line and backing, is volume.
It should be possible mathematically to calculate the maximum useable volume of a reel spool and express this in either CC or Cubic Inches.
Equally, it should be possible for manufacturers of lines and backing to declare the displacement of their products again in CC or C Inches.
It should be a simple matter to add the displacement of line and backing and pair it with the appropriate reel.
In practice it would probably be prudent to add, say 10% to the line/backing volume to allow for cage clearance and uneven winding.
So come on manufacturers- any takers?
Mike
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Post by ibm59 on May 12, 2007 18:01:36 GMT
Can't help but agree , Dangler. Something along these lines could work. Not holding my breath though when you consider how long people have been banging on about line ratings with very little movement from the builders yard. Most can't even get as far as putting head lengths on line boxes.
Perhaps this is a cunning plan. BALDRIC........
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