Alexander Grant 80 yard+ casts

[rpsalmon]

I have searched through Jock Scott's Fine & Far Off today in order to trace what kind of cast Mr Grant used to complete an 80 yard cast. While off the top of my head I could remember he used his switch cast for what he would regard as normal casts, I presume he shot line and used a WF line to make his 80 yard + casts as I don't think he could shoot line with his switch cast and continuous tapered line.

Does anyone know if he used a spey cast for the 80 yard+ casts or did he modify his switch cast by letting the tip of his line anchor in the water and start his forward stroke earlier?

Update: In referring to the 80 yard + casts, I can not actually find any references in books or magazines about such a cast, but I am sure I have read a report of a 82 or 83 yard cast across the Thames for instance. I am aware of the clear record of his "smaller" 74 yard cast that was made on grass and without shooting line.

[salmonshrimp]

Perhaps he used an overhead cast as the over head cast will allow for further distance on a Spey Rod

[rpsalmon]

I find it hard to beleive he would have done so, he considered the spey and overhead casts to take up/loose too much energy. His "Grant Switch" cast seems to bear a striking similarity to the "underhand" cast that someone seems to have invented quite recently. There is a record of Grant casting 74 yards, without shooting line on the forward stroke, on grass. I can not find the article or source to support my recollection of an across the Thames cast of 82/83 yards, I am just wondering if he further developed his square sectioned lines in later life and this enabled him to get his extra few yards, or whether (as I have found to be the only way that allows you to shoot line with Grant's switch cast) he let the end of his line anchor in the water but didn't quite let all the momentum of his line dissipate.

[fishingd0]

Here is a link to some info on Grants 74 yrd cast. I would imagine it would have been done with an over head cast as it was on grass.

A legend of the casting world.

www.speycast.co.uk/website/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=38&MMN_position=54:53

[salmonshrimp]

To Spey cast 74yds of line without shooting any line would need about a 70yd radius D loop.(4yd anchor approx)

Hard to imagine that anyone could physically create that size of a D loop.

IMHO With an overhead cast you can lift and airialise a much longer length of line than you can with a Spey or Switch cast.

[rpsalmon]

No, he used to switch cast for the 74 yard cast. He considered the overhead cast to loose too much momentum/waste energy.

With the Grant Switch cast there is no real D loop and no line anchor on the water. I have read it described as an upside down overhead cast but with my perception of his cast, as I practice it, is that a description of a "upside down overhead cast" isn't exactly correct.

[fishingd0]

Surely to perform a switch cast some sort of resistance is required i.e. water?

[rpsalmon]

The Grant switch cast is different to modern switch casts.

There was no anchor, other than the fly! He let the momentum leave the line and then punch forward, hence the general description of a upside down overhead cast.

[salmonshrimp]

I suppose a 9/0 single iron fly would anchor well enough. However the D loop would still be 74 yds approx radius. The switch cast as i know it is known as the single spey cast and indeed I think it is the same cast technically. A jump roll with a change of direction

The rod would need to be 20ft or longer to accomplish such a large D loop, and just maybe he stood on a 4ft high rock as well. Either way a great cast from a legend.

[rpsalmon]

Grant's Switch cast wasn't what is called a switch cast or single spey cast today, there was no line anchor on the water and he didn't use a 9/0 or other meat hook. The basis and principal to the cast is different to the spey, though you could be mistake his cast for a spey. His rod was 21ft.

[stu47]

www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=37.0

The link here may be of some interest on Grant and his vibration rods

[rpsalmon]

Wow, thanks for that Grant info. I correct my statement about the 74 yard cast, he didn't use a 21ft rod...it was only 18ft 5 inches.

[salmonshrimp]

Great info and I see it was an overhead cast for the 74yds ;D ;D

[speyghillie]

Having studied Alexander Grant for the past two or three years, there is no doubt he was a genius, the best there ever was.
I hope to do an article on him one day, but there is some mistakes in Fine and Far off.
Also Alexander Grant designed his line to be a constant taper, and they had to stop and alter the machines 92 times to get the line the way he liked.
I have footage of the Highland Switch cast, or Planet cast, nothing like what most people think.
Harry Jamieson at Clan Rods is the man to speak to about Alexander Grant
Even his line was a work of art, and most of the time he fished small doubles.
Got to go.
Gordon.

[salmonshrimp]

Can we see some footage ?

[rpsalmon]

The article on the link doesn't actually say it was an overhead cast, it says the line was run out to the rear and then cast overhead, though whether it was an overhead cast or even "the overhead part of" his switch cast, from that article it sounds as though it may well have been a set up as a purely artificial cast for demonstration purposes.

If it wasn't his switch cast, then I can't understand why he didn't shoot line to make a longer cast as part of the demonstrations.

If anyone has any further info, it will be welcomed.

[speyghillie]

Hi Guy's,
Alexander Grant was a genius in so many different ways, i don't have time right now to give you lots of examples as i'm off to Canada for six weeks soon, and got lots to do.
Inverness museum has lots of info on Alexander Grant, and through all the studing of the history of Speycasting and Alexander Grant i have found lots of detail about him and his casting style.
The cast of 74yds was just to show what his rod could do, and was in fact all the line on his reel.
He coresponded with Albert Einstein, while making his rod and line, (square plaid silk) , even desgined his own tools to make his rods.
Well known for his fiddle making and his understanding of the vibration qualities of different woods, (this came from when he was 18 and went to study forestry at Cullen) he carried this on for the rest of his life, but after showing what his rods could do he only made rods for around 10yrs the demand was so great he sold the company to Playfair and one of the first things they did was put cork on the handle, something he never would have done.
There is a fiddle in the Museum that states in Grant handwriting , " strad made -late 1600 front restored and whole body re-balanced to correct relationship.
Harry at Clan rods in making the rods again, and he will tell you it's not easy but he has the spec for all Grants rods and is working on the line.
Alexander Grant fished small double's, wore his hat back to front when casting, and was also the first to fish multi tip lines, that he invented.
Got to go.
Gordon.

[salmonshrimp]

The line was run out to the rear and then cast overhead. In this manner Mr Grant cast 74yds,

As I read it "In this manner" refers to "overhead" in the previous sentence, meaning an overhead lift. The test was a lifting test and not a casting test.

The reason he didn't shoot line was because he had no more line on the reel, if he had more line on the reel perhaps the cast would have been longer.

[rpsalmon]

Dear speyghillie

Thank you for that information, I have become more amazed at this man. Would be delighted to hear more. I have to wonder how the line could be reproduced since nobody makes them in that way anymore, and the process would probably take 3-6 months to finish a line.

Dear salmonshrimp

I noticed the article said overhead, but it didn’t say overhead cast. You may well be correct that it is simply what we regard as an overhead cast. I also noticed the point about the line only being 74 yards, but I find it difficult to imagine it would be beyond the imagination on the participants to add some extra line to see how far could be cast with the same method and shooting line. The Grant Switch cast did not allow much line to be shot, and with Mr Grant’s views on Spey and Overhead casting as outlined in “Fine and Far Off”, I find it difficult to imagine he then used anything other than a Grant Switch cast otherwise he would have shot line. I have nothing against Mr Grant making an overhead cast.