Buying Fly Fishing Tackle in Scotland.....

[splash]

I suspect that this is a pretty significant issue for most of us. Whether you are a complete tackle junkie or just trying to pick up a specific piece of kit at a bargain price, we all spend lots of money on tackle. Yet, despite this, I sense that as in some other areas of salmon fishing, it seems to me that the value proposition is not great and , in general , as I know there are exceptions, the sense of customer focus, loyalty and value is low compared with other industries.

Now, I am fully aware that we may contribute to this issue by sourcing our tackle from multiple retailers, dependent upon both (primarily in my view) availability and price. This leads to a situation where its perhaps difficult to establish a relationship with a single retailer and hence negotiate a decent discount. As an example, I have looked at the places I have purchased tackle in the last 12 months and its diverse:

- Local tackle shop, eg Tweedside tackle
- Angling Megastore, eg WROC
- Specialist retailer, eg Farlowes, Sportsfish
- US Tackle dealer, eg Fisherman's Spot LA
- US Megastore, eg Cabela's
- eBay shops
- eBay auctions
- Mail order superstore, eg Fishtec
- Classifieds from this forum
- Specialty mail order, eg McHardy's, Flymakers
- Direct from Manufacturers Website, eg Danielsson, Lamson

and so on (hope Mrs Splash isn't reading this).

As I mentioned earlier perhaps I'm being hoisted by my own petard for diversifying but the primary driver of this diversification is availability and not price; we simply cannot get what we want at the price that we want it and when we want from one retail outlet in the current environment. Now in risking the chagrin of the tackle dealers on the forum(sorry Frank) would it not be nice for someone in the tackle trade to open a retail outlet in the central belt which catered for all the major brands, was well stocked and offered loyal customers a service in terms of discounts, trade in allowances and loyalty bonuses and which offered a first class mail order service for those unable to make it in person. This seems to work in other lines of business. A Scottish Cabela's, maybe, or perhaps I'm totally out of kilter with everyone else out there on this subject. I think its worth discussing though gentlemen. Your thoughts please.....

Splash

[Sloggi]

I think you're correct Splash. I also think the internet has helped greatly in all aspects of tackle purchasing. Ebay is a good source of tackle.

It would be good to get some "loyalty scheme" for angling non-professionals and like many, I guess, I only visit my local shop as a last resort or as a matter of urgency.

However, we (anglers) are also part of the problem as we pay silly money for the latest evolutionary piece of tackle...and do the same six months later

[castlikeaghille]

I know this thread is about the retail end, but the problems are endemic in the industry so I'm going to comment generically as well as specifically on shops.

The tackle industry....ooooohhhh if Zephead needed a soap box the height of the Eiffel Tower on Fish Here Sites, mine is Babel like in proportion on this subject. Deep breath, now whether manufacturing or distribution (wholesale and retail), the tackle industry is generally blighted by three things:

1. It is supplier push rather than demand led. When was the last time, if ever, you were contacted by a market research team on behalf of a tackle company (and if you file all those warranty cards they know you are a regular customer)?

2. Far too much of it is controlled by well meaning enthusiasts rather than customer focused professional business people. The best thing that could happen to most tackle manufacturers would be that they were run by people who don't fish but understand how to create a customer value proposition, six sigma production standards and other basic ops management skills that are woefully absent most of the time.

3. There is a pervading, and quite extraordinary, expectation of automatic customer loyalty regardless of the quality of product or service. Somehow it's the customer's fault if they choose not to accept crap service, no stock and look elsewhere.

On retail distribution, 20 years ago I worked as a rep for a timber company that supplied hardware stores with timber, molding, conti board etc. Then along came B&Q/Texas etc and within 3 years bye, bye most small hardware/DIY stores.

No doubt many people on here will be familiar with the B&Q business model based on defined inventory and par stocking. You know what they stock and that they will almost certainly have it. So you are prepared to drive miles out of town to go there even though you pay a premium on most things other than Black & Decker Drills.

Put in context, how many times have you gone to such a place with a list of ten items and surprised yourself when something wasn't there? Now think about the times you've gone to your local tackle shop and surprised yourself because all ten items were actually there I suspect it is about the same for both.

The WROC seem to be pursuing a B&Q type strategy (albeit a poor imitation of the real thing) - run a couple of high profile loss leaders and then charge maximum price on everything else including a whopping margin on sundries. The consumer does not appear to be seeing any benefit from what must be bulk enhanced terms, which they might get away with if their stock ratio was 99.9% like B&Q and the service was any good.

However, that is their privilege just as it is mine to choose not to buy from there after trying it and suffering a miserable and expensive customer experience. If I owned the WROC and read what people had to say about my store on here I'd be mortified by the feedback and would be acting on it instantly. However, this is the tackle business where the customer is always wrong, so don't hold your breath.

As for your idea on the central belt, it's just possible interested parties have run the slide rule over that one, although there is possibly a more optimal model than the one you are suggesting. Margin in tackle shops typically runs at 17 - 19 % which is a little higher than the usual retail average. So there is a profitable business out there if someone gets it right (and many of the coarse sheds have).

Anyway, nothing like a good get it off yer chest session on a Friday afternoon to prepare you for a few relaxing refreshments at The Last Cast Saloon shortly

Good skill to anyone casting flee, spinner or snake at fuishies over the weekend.

Regardeth


CLaG

[splash]

[/quote]

As for your idea on the central belt, it's just possible interested parties have run the slide rule over that one, although there is possibly a more optimal model than the one you are suggesting. Margin in tackle shops typically runs at 17 - 19 % which is a little higher than the usual retail average. So there is a profitable business out there if someone gets it right (and many of the coarse sheds have).

[/quote]

Thanks for the sermon Rev ClaG Actually, I wasn't really trying to suggest that there was one solution, a sort of tackle shop panacea, or optimal business model that would create more customer value but first and foremost attempting to see whether there was a general feeling that forum members were dissatisfied with there sense of value when dealing with the tackle trade or otherwise. certainly in fields like the auto trade, up market hi fi etc there is a strong feeling of "rip off Britain" that pervades. As Springer points out, anglers are partially to because they want things for "nowt" but given that your average salmon angler spends a lot of money on gear, I'm sure that if a retail outlet operating on the business principles/model that you articulate, , it would provide a strong customer value proposition

[robmason]

Help me out here guys, WROC?

It seems to me that the fishing tackle retailers are contracting as in other retail lines, due no doubt to the internet. My "local" tackle shop is 21 miles away.

[castlikeaghille]

splash said:

As for your idea on the central belt, it's just possible interested parties have run the slide rule over that one, although there is possibly a more optimal model than the one you are suggesting. Margin in tackle shops typically runs at 17 - 19 % which is a little higher than the usual retail average. So there is a profitable business out there if someone gets it right (and many of the coarse sheds have).

[/quote]

Thanks for the sermon Rev ClaG Actually, I wasn't really trying to suggest that there was one solution, a sort of tackle shop panacea, or optimal business model that would create more customer value but first and foremost attempting to see whether there was a general feeling that forum members were dissatisfied with there sense of value when dealing with the tackle trade or otherwise. certainly in fields like the auto trade, up market hi fi etc there is a strong feeling of "rip off Britain" that pervades. As Springer points out, anglers are partially to because they want things for "nowt" but given that your average salmon angler spends a lot of money on gear, I'm sure that if a retail outlet operating on the business principles/model that you articulate, , it would provide a strong customer value proposition

[/quote]

Bless you my son - why is it whenever we consider focus groups we talk about angler's, golfers, twitchers, butcher, baker candlestick maker they suddenly become a consumer sub spiecies bred on the planet Mongo to be awkward slaves of Ming the Merciless with bizzare, unique and super sophisticated purchasing habits and expectations? Yet the same people when they go to M&S, Asda, Tesco, Waitrose (Harrods for the Emperor's man) are punters?

Mega B/S x 2 here. The reason why is becasue in professionally run retail world they understand the impact of supply, product meeting needs & wants, quality and service where the problem is not the customer if the customer is staying away.

Tackle Trade - definitely more joke than you'll experience with Bobby Davro

Regardez

CLaG

[splash]

robmason said:

Help me out here guys, WROC?

It seems to me that the fishing tackle retailers are contracting as in other retail lines, due no doubt to the internet. My "local" tackle shop is 21 miles away.

Weegie Rip Off Centre aka Glasgow Angling Centre.......

[zephead]

ClaG is spot on here in many respects in that,the big problem with the UK retail tackle trade specailising in game fishing,to narrow and focus the terms of reference,is that,in many instances,it is run by the enthusiast for the service of the vulnerable,with no real thought as to long term customer satisfaction and retention.

Refining Splash's breakdown of the UK-retail trade we have:-

(i)Local specialists-trading circa 2,000 sq ft of net sales area with a bit of mail order chucked in,often near a river,and very much the spot to while away a flooded off hour or two.

(ii)The "Hallowed Ground" operator,Farlow's,more on the butchery of a worldwide icon later.....

(iii)Internet Sheds that sell off over 3,500 sq ft net sales allied to a strong mail order/web based prescence.

And yet,the stregnth of the retail spend remaining inside the UK trade is so pitiful that you just don't see 5 or 6 multi-site retailers with a chain of over 10 stores,and albeit in wider cross-code context,this is ironic as we are often told by the CA etc "that their are more anglers in Britain than any other sport etc and you could fill Wembley stadium twice over with weekend anglers etc etc etc."

The knife edge these operators,in all the respective divisions,sit on is that throughput of trade is relatively thin and margins are so piss poor when faced with the need to offer a wide stock choice that a sell first,build a business later mentality is generally the norm rather than an approach where a well-discussed assessment of the customers ability and needs,percieved and real,is taken account of and a transaction undertaken where the customer has a true sense of value,not only immediately post sale but over the coming months and years when the items are tested and used in the field.

Quite why,in a sport where relaxation leads to quiet reflection,do tackle dealers sell a guy any old thing where he has the opportunity to brood for days on end about what a heap of junk he was just sold and where next to buy the replacement item is utterly inexplicable.

The fact that this attitude has come to pervade the retail tackle industry,which is basically a British Invention-cue burst of Land of Hope and Glory,is a sad indictment of trying to use modern retail techniques in an industry thats as old as the hills without sufficient forethought as to their correct and sympathetic application as to customers requirements-ie understand your marketplace!!!!!!!!!

It has lead to the perpetual scramble for the cheapest deal by the purchaser-because its more than likely NOT really be what you ACTUALLY needed/wanted-so for fecks sake lets not be paying top whack for it!

The malais,some may say terminal rot,in the retail trade is typified by the butchery of Farlow's by brand managers,market researchers,and (out of) focus groups where prostitution of the tackle at it's point of sale coupled with a removal of world leading-knowledge based consultative selling had an iconic British business on the ropes and pleading for Harry Carpenter to get the ref to stop it.

Whilst adopting an extremity to make point,long gone are the days of their staff being sent to the far corners of the earth to fish so they knew exactly,par example,what size bonefish flies you need in May,and what weight line goes best with the rod you are choosing to go with,and "yes sir, you'll have Charlie as your guide and please remind me to him and tell him we'll see him in 6 months when we are out there checking trying a new spot up the coast etc etc".

So without that expertise and assessment of the customers requirement,whether it be in the "new" Farlows branch or one of the Internet Shed Operators real or virtual soulless emporia,you'd have thought they'd have worked out long ago its hard to sell the right stuff for the right job and expect the guy to come back again.

Which leads to the retailer guessing what the customer needs,and then he is sold what the hell he asked for not what he needs.Customer is then miffed cos it don't work so he needs another one but he's just spent money on the first one so he goes deeper online/abroad/direct to the factory gate and hunts out the cheapest deal.

But,as contrary once-bitten-twice-shy salmon anglers who'd rather be in a tackle shop if we ain't fishing,we go still go and have a look in another store,as after all its a touchy feely leisure time pursuit and spending money on the kit and reading a label like a short novel in the store is as much a part of the fun as using it,with the net result the local shop that does offer a service takes a pasting on its margins just to get the sale to stay in business and the spiral starts all over again.

So on the one hand you've got the pressure of anglers wanting a deal and the other of bricks and mortar/catalogue/e-commerce retailers chasing an increasingly slippery market,both in terms of available spend and alternative channels as per Splashs spend pattern above,thro which to attract it.

And,like farmers complaining as to the nations besotdeness with cheap food but at the risk of it not being viable to produce,I do think we,as anglers have to look at how we buy and "go local" unless the nirvana of an outlet like Splash suggests arrives,albeitinmy professional capacity I think the opening date is probably the 12th of never given the property cost and ball-aching amount of wedge it would take to stock it,never mind the physciatric consultants bills for whoever operated it to keep them from being sectioned til it started to click a profit.

I think there is so much more merit in visiting the likes of Turriff Tackle,Gamefish,Somers et al but taking the time to explain precisely what your percieved needs/application for your purchase are-especially if it is in relation to fishing on that river/locale.In defence of Farlow's,who now seem to be turning the corner after some scalpel weilding,their Chief Exec made a great point to me when she said she didn't understand why they didn't have shops near rivers where they could sell their expertise rather than just product.

In relation to the cost of a days fishing,whats a fiver on the cost of a fly line or £30/£40 on a rod when you know you can walk back in to a dealer with whom you have a relationship and say "I'm just not happy with this,what can we do about it?" rather than having to brood sullenly til you can afford to buy the correct replacement because one of the big boys won't countenance a return/trade in.Ok,everyone is on a budget of some description,but the hunt for cheap tackle utopia is one of the reasons why choice,customer service and value are scarcer than this seasons springers.I'm sick of seeing folks come the threat of a trip to Norris's from Edinburgh or Durham to get £30 off a rod when the opportunity cost of time never mind real cost of petrol,wear and tear on vehicle far outweighs the "in wallet" saving.

Anyway,the burd on the veranda opposite has just taken her bikini top off so I'll say cheerio while I go and find the Swarovski's before some local retail tackle shop therapy this afternoon.


ZH

[rennie]

Some interesting theories there one and all,however most of it is just guff to the cash/plastic wielding angler after shinny new toys.In the modern UK take away the natural Salmon habitats of Scotland and Wales(mainland anyway,sorry Ireland) and you are left with the wasteland that is England.All my local tackle dealers in or near sunny Wakefield are coarse based with a little Trouty stuff thrown in,I can negotiate deals for cash,get excellent customer service,throw in feed-back,part-ex,obtain a cash rebate if the goods are no good(exceedingly rare) browse to my delight(very important) and generally play one off against the other to get the best deal.I suppose at the end of the day I will be fishing alongside these people come fishing days and if I or any one is "Done Over" all and sundry will know about it.
Now about the only Salmony things I can buy local on the spot are nylon and some hooks,any thing else is "Special Order"which while being better than nowt doesn't give me the chance to compare or even try before I buy.The nearest tackle dealers of any use to the Salmon Angler are Linsley Bros. in Harrogate,1 1/2 hrs away if the traffic is light,Ted Carter and Fawcettes are 2 hrs and Norrises 2hrs +,these are all great for a browse/rummage(essential sometimes) but they still might not have what I want/need.(lessor shops are about,Halifax,Bawtry and Holmfirth).
The next choice is mail order,enough said there we all know about that side of things,personally the service I have received from some of them has been great.
Now as far as a central dealer theory goes,well its there already,it just depends where you live.For those of us who travel north on change over day(Sunday) Norrises is the place (or Tweedside for the Tweed) lots of stock,good kit,good deals.Have noticed tho.if you have the Platinum card posh motor and name drop of the hallowed beats you will be casting over they are only too happy to charge you top whack,however I cant complain over pricing or service when I visit.
In the part of the country I reside in I have to accept all this and more or less as the case may be,it pays to do your home work shop/ring/or surf around,things just aren't as instant as some of us may like.
Now then a word of caution for all of you,in my neck of the woods plenty of tackle shops are going under in the face of Mail Order competition and secondly more importantly the "New Commercial Fisheries"that have well stocked shops,clean cafes and proper toilets all on site. Think about it would you like to get all your kit from the Gillie's hut on the Monday morning or perhaps a phone call the week before and its all ready and waiting for you(used to see a lot of this in the late Perthshire Fieldsports in Perth on Sundays and isn't that what B+W sort of do Speyside-ish?) and then the easy going chap that the already over worked Gillie is will do you a fry up. Plenty of beats I have thrashed about on have a selection of flies/devons/spinners and nylon available usually by way of a local tackle shop,how long until a large retailer has a fixed tie to a beat and you only fish with the recommended kit?. Food (or tackle) for thought eh!

[zephead]

Rennie-careful now-enough of this wasteland stuff.You are playing nto Mr salmon(d)s hands here.Maybe in the words of Mr Daltrey some of dear old Albion could be described as,perhaps,a teenage wasteland but certainly not a salmon tackle dealer wasteland.After all,there is Brown Trout in Harrogate where the proprietor and his silver haired (and tongued) staff are most accommodating,knowledgeable salmon and sea-trout anglers with some big fish to their names.

Pleased to see you get a trade-in,can do a deal for cash etc and are demonstrating that a deal can be negotiated at under RRP without a strafing and that patronising a local dealer works even if research has to be done elsewhere as there is regrettably not the concentration of dealers local to you as per Scotland in the title of the thread.

I also see that you touch on the great tackle item that so many stores sell,the "Special Order" item only available on the "In the Book" shelf.It is a great shame that the "central dealership" doesn't apply to Yorkshire but,to these eyes,somewhat perplexing as to where all the old Tykes on Tweed and Spey get all their Leadshod wading boots made by Heron Inc although I hear that the Simms wading jackets with the strong zinger are good for tipping boatmen the renowned Bank of Leeds elasticated fiver.

Very good point on the "tackle shop" tie-seen it on the Tay and given the recent penchant for sales incentivisation by certain (Viking) rod manufacturers of ghillies/boatmen it can't be far away.Never had much of a deal out of the Penrith mob.Despite the Earl of Chorley and I being regular passers-by I have always felt it depends on what side the staff are out of bed that morning as to how you are served and as to how much anyone gives a balls you have been sold the right kit.

Contrastingly,I cannott praise the Viper and his wife Lindy enough at Tweedside Tackiel since most deals I've ever done have been a "hire first-buy at leisure" deal which has meant collecting it at lunchtime that day or next morning when he has got what I asked for ready/ordered if there has been a run on them and that's despite him knowning where I was fishing and the Merc abandoned outside his back door for days on end.

ZH.

[rennie]

Woh woh there Zephead,wots all this fiver tipping business,gold choccy coin from the crimbo tree if you please.Oh and the zinger on the faithful Simms has been well modified to a much stronger one,any way if you were really clued up you would know its a length of .06 fluro carbon we all use these days,said Gillie's can actually close and pocket the bank of Scotland before we commence retrieval,they never know you know.All the more to spend in the toy shop tha knows. Pedro.

[turrifftackle]

All very interesting.

I come from a business back ground not your typical tackle person and Zephead is as close to the truth as I have seen anywhere when this discussion comes up.

Frank

[kenziemac]

Hello All,
Been away for a while, no, not that type of away.
And I've been having a real giggle at the threads posted in this topic. (no offence to anyone)
But I do have to smile. I do also visit on occasion most of the long established and new tackle outlets in the Glasgow area, and I have almost always come away with what it was that I needed and also secured a reasonable discount from the dreaded sticker, sometimes even without asking.
Even in the WROC, I am normally afforded a very high level of respect and civility and will continue to spend large chunks of my hard earned there.
Same goes for Pat at the top of the hill and Kenny at the bottom.
Sometimes it's horses for courses, the scale of these 3 businesses allows me as the consumer to have a real choice in weighing up service, availability, banter and price.
I do sincerely hope that the little guys and the big guy keep doing what they do best.
Yours Honestly
Kenzie Mac