18 footers

[rennie]

As Jim has stated the "Grainhead" is a unique bit of water and plenty of people doubt what has to be done here to be consistently successful.Have been privileged enough to watch some really good casters on several rivers lashing out a good line but I will tell you all this,up to the raspberries a drop of extra coming down, low water temp and a full line (sinking of course) and 40 yd is a bloody long way off,however an 18ft rod 20yd+ of shooting head to slick backing, a good technique and 40yd +casts are easier than you think especially when you start to up the sink rate of the line.Once whilst fishing the Muirton several years ago a famous journalist came to fish and see what all the fuss was about,he waded in in front of me with a full wet 2 after telling all on the bank how he would catch just as well as us regulars,in short he was a pain casting at most 20yd and painfully slow in progress down the pool whilst I behind him took two fish,he was lucky if his fly got as far as the knot of my shooting backing to shooting head.Point to all this is no matter who you are or where you fish eventually there will be some one who can cast better than you and on this particular bit of water many people have developed their techniques to that end,I have fished here for nearly 20 years but wouldn't dream of using my "Tay" kit any where else(except perhaps the lower Tweed) its horses for courses if we all have any sense.I can cast a bit but I wouldn't expect to keep up with Mr.Gunn Esq with a floater(indeed probably others on this site too) but if he brought his sinkers to the "Grain" well sorry but role reversal(but there again he is no idiot and would no doubt adapt soon enough[don't mean any offense there in this Mr.Gunn] ).A good fisher will cast well enough with any technique,a better one better still and so on,but try this for yourselves go stand armpit deep with your favorite strong rod and wet 2 or more and consistently cast 40yds,then try the same task with an 18ft rod and shooting head its a damn site easier. In case you all shout "biased bigot "or some such,my best days and best fish from this bit of water have all come to 15/16ft rod full floater and size 14 dressed trebles.I have stood in front of/behind /opposite the two Gents mentioned earlier on in this thread and yes indeed they are Very Impressive casters and fishers, their respective presentations of the fly saying all that needs to be said and watched them both many times catch fish when lessor mortals(me etc) blank with less style,but there are others who can perform to this level too.Thing is its a unique bit of water that can and does give often outstanding sport at even up to 4ft on the gauge right through the beat and to the fly too and then also down to 1ft below ,it should be a simple exercise for the grey matter to sort out the appropriate technique for he day but there again we could say that for any angler anywhere,couldn't we?. Pedro,(striving for 55 yds+ )

[acw]

dunbar said:

18 footers are for wimps ;D I was trawling through some old copies of Trout & Salmon and I am sure there were 20 & 25 foot rods for sale through John Norris in the late 70s/early 80s. If I can find an ad I will scan it in.

Hardy certainly made 20foooters ,saw one go as a carp fishing rod and then lost track of it

[jock]

springer said:

elwyman said:

Don't forget Alexander Grant who cast 65 yards with a 20' greenheart rod in 1895, without shooting any line!

Aye, if you believe in fairy stories.

Springer,

To my knowledge there is no evidence that Alexander Grant was of a "Homogeneous persuasion."

More likely they got the units wrong. Rod 20' cast 65' You should try a modern day reconstruction....was it possible to cast 65 yds, what was possible with that equipment?

[kercock]

sagecaster,if you would like to try out an 18ft Norway send me a PM and we can arrange it.

[toucan]

No fairy stories about Grant. The casts were made in public and independently witnessed. There is no reason at all to doubt the figures.

Line technology has moved on, but not necessarily to the benefit of casting distance. Grant used custom-made braided silk lines which have significant benefits in terms of lower air resistance in comparison with plastic lines.

Mark

[ger]

springer said:

I don't dispute that guys on the Tay cast a long way with their 18'ers and shooting heads, to put things into perspective here is the top 6 places in last years EWM World Salmon Distance competition. These were 18' rods standing on a platform 12" above the water, the amount of body and arm movement was extreme to achieve these casts. Most are Norweigians but you might notice a very famous American.

Arguably the best all round overhead caster the world has seen, (although not on this occasion) 50.52 mtrs.

1 FORBERG BJORN A. NOR 51.29

2 RAJEFF STEVE USA 50.52

3 BLOMBERG MIKAEL NOR 50.25

4 GRONBERG STEIN NOR 4 49.36

5 WABENO KAARE NOR 49.33

6 LILLEHEIM MATHAIS NOR 47.15

I don't think many people see 45yd casts on the river very often and a good chuck with an 18 might look like 50yds, I'd be surprised if it is.

The EWM salmon distance was with 15ft rods and a line with about 80 or 85ft head length. It was more or less a standard fishing type line that was specially made by Airflo for the EWM.

Ger

[ger]

greenalert said:

Are cast distances measured from the reel? i.e. leader length + Line length + rod length

I don't know

Thanks

Distances are measured from the front of the casting platform to where the piece of wool lands.

Ger

[kercock]

Difficult if the competitors are wading ala Kelso greenalert

[sagefly]

Good point kercock, I think that the cast was measured from the bouy to the wool indicator at Kelso. So aort of reel to wool as described above.

[zephead]

Interesting to note the comments on 18 footers.

I bought a B&W Powerlite 2 seasons ago for slinging a lot of line about a well as for its ability to mend and slow a fly down.Didn't think the Norway had the same power as the Powerlite and not mad about the action but thats mor personal than anything else.

I have to say it is superb at both jobs and puts a full Lee Wulff intermediate and plenty of spliced on running line through the rod top and has caught me fish where I just wouldn't have got them.I cannott reccomend it highly enough but if you do buy one get it with the full 11 weight top as it has just that bit more power to handle Teeny heads etc than the production modle which is a casting tool or better still get it made with two heads.

Haven't tried a Carron 18 footer but bet that is superb rod as well.

A few Sage and foreign lightweight rod devotees have used it and had to have a lie down afterwards but its just a question of finding the balancing point and lifting your arms when using it.

[madkeen]

I know it's not 18ft but has anyone tried the CND 17ft 8in?

[williegunn]

madkeen said:

I know it's not 18ft but has anyone tried the CND 17ft 8in?

The Beast or the Beastie?

[madkeen]

Is there 2 different 17ft 8in rods Malcolm?

[williegunn]

I have cast a fishing and a competition version

[madkeen]

It was really the fishing one I was interested in.How does it compare to the 18ft norway or powerlite?

[al44]

Dunbar mentions 20 to 25 footers for sale in the late 70's early 80's.

McHardy's of Carlisle sold both 20 and 25 foot rods in their Cumbria Graphite range. The 20' was four piece in either a 10/11 or 11/12. The 25' version was a five piece rated 11/12, with the sales caption "Super length, super power." I happened to come across the advert the other day, Trout and Salmon April 1984 top of page 135.

Did anyone really buy one of these 25 footers, and more to the point use it for more than 10 minutes?