18 footers

[sagecaster]

I was taught a real lesson on the lower tay last year, I thought that my casting ability with my 15fter would be more than adequate to fish the water effectively. However how wrong I was, having more than once having fish taken out from behind me by anglers using 18footers casting a good 10-12 yards further than me. Its astonishing to watch, I'm sure some of these guys are regularly hitting 50 yds!!

Anyway I'm looking to join the club and am currently looking at B&W powerlights, norways and the new Ian Gordon 18 fast. I have never fished with any of these rods however the IG 14' & 15' range has had great reviews on the Spey and I like the look. Has anyone tested/tried these 18footers out and how do they compare regarding performance, durability and robustness? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

[salmonscotty16lb]

good post i was just going to do one the same as i have joined the stormount club and after walking murton yesterday i will require a new rod. the water was up and no one out fishing so couldn't watch the locals or get a proper idea of the beat and tackle used

[sagecaster]

You won't find many out until July, and the best of it is in September and October. The high bank and deep water close in mean you need an 18 footer. The grainhead is quite unique, making casting off the right bank very difficult in a medium water, because you can't get in as its too deep, and casting off the bank you tend to find that Spey casting is out and overhead casting tricky because of the trees and undergrowth high above you. Hence the 18fters!

[madkeen]

I fish muirton and use the 18ft norway its quite light for its size and is good for overhead casting shooting heads.Sagecaster your quite right when you say some rods are casting 50yds+.There is one well known rod who casts a huge distance and he uses a T+T think its around 17ft.There is also boys using 20ft Hardys ,best to try a few rods to see what suits.
Alan

[williegunn]

Long casts yes but I doubt 50 + yds that is a very good cast and very few in the world can manage that.

[Fruin]

Malcolm,

There are quite a few rods on Rome Croy and Muirtons that regularly cast fifty yards, but it is rare to see a spey cast, as most overhead cast with shooting heads.

The sad thing is - if you get there really early in the morning most of the resident fish are close to the bank. It is only when the people wade in to there armpits and start waving 18 footers about that the fish move out of range of all but the best casters.

[williegunn]

I cannot see any advantage in using an 18 ft rod for overhead casting a shooting head.

[jimthefish]

williegunn said:

Long casts yes but I doubt 50 + yds that is a very good cast and very few in the world can manage that.

I was fishing Rome Croy a few years ago behind a guy who had different coloured lengths of backing attached to his shooting head. After one of his casts a fish grabbed just as the fly landed. He had a change of colour in his hand when the fish took so we were able to pace out the exact length of his cast. It was 53 yards.

The 18 footers are used with lines which are not shooting heads per se in the Scandinavian sense. They are typically 18 to 23 yards from Hevi Revis to Hi Di's with a brass tube at least in the fast part of the Grainhead Stream with a big water running.
Like the rest of the regulars I used to kill fish on my 18footers but my best sport on Rome Croy was in low water Septembers quietly speycasting a 40 yard floater with a 5' polytip using a smaller rod and small fly. For some insane reason otherwise intelligent fishers used to use 12 weight shooting head floaters with several false casts some of which splashed down on the quietly gliding water. It was a great thrill to go down quietly behind them and take one out their pocket.

I have neglected Rome Croy in recent years but am resolved to go back and try my 15' 9" Le Cie with a Power Taper. Easier on the tendons and should work .

[jimthefish]

williegunn said:

I cannot see any advantage in using an 18 ft rod for overhead casting a shooting head.

See previous post. The greater length of rod helps to clear the backcast bankside obstacles at the rear especially since the most effective casters use a backcast loop which ends up at a level under the rod tip with the forward trajectory aimed high. The 18ft Hardys, Norways, Mackenzie Philps, Old Greys of Alnwick, Fibatube are powerful beasts and capable of casting with 23 yards of 13 weight Hi Di.
Know where you're coming from Malcolm and in most places you are right. Sad thing is Fruin is also right in an earlier post. The fish at Rome Croy could be caught closer in if it wasn't for the ultra deep waders & the 18ftrs. Not so sure nowadays though as I believe the Grainhead has shallowed up a great deal since they stopped netting operations there.

[madkeen]

Seen much the same thing as Jim ,man fishing with a 20yd head attatched to 30yds of running line and was hitting the running line to backing connection out the rod.If in doubt have a wander down there in september it is an eye opener.

[jock]

I'm out my depth on this one. How do you shoot so much line? When I'm up to my rasperries (or higher) speycasting away in a fast current I'm lucky if I can shoot 15 yds (and that's probably an overestimate) without it being tangled, caught round something or water drag prevents more line shooting. Now I don't use shooting heads but I would have thought the running line was even more prone to tangles etc.

[Fruin]

Trust me, some of them are putting out 50 yds. It is quite something to watch. Not my thing, looks like too much effort

Like you say Jim, it is odd to watch most of the regulars casting with an 18 footer and heavy lines in low water

[jimthefish]

springer said:

I don't dispute that guys on the Tay cast a long way with their 18'ers and shooting heads, to put things into perspective here is the top 6 places in last years EWM World Salmon Distance competition. These were 18' rods standing on a platform 12" above the water, the amount of body and arm movement was extreme to achieve these casts. Most are Norweigians but you might notice a very famous American.

Arguably the best all round overhead caster the world has seen, (although not on this occasion) 50.52 mtrs.



1 FORBERG BJORN A. NOR 51.29

2 RAJEFF STEVE USA 50.52

3 BLOMBERG MIKAEL NOR 50.25

4 GRONBERG STEIN NOR 4 49.36

5 WABENO KAARE NOR 49.33

6 LILLEHEIM MATHAIS NOR 47.15

I don't think many people see 45yd casts on the river very often and a good chuck with an 18 might look like 50yds, I'd be surprised if it is.

Remember Alan the distances you quote were cast with floating lines for the most part on still water. Heavy sinkers are much more airodynamic and easier to tension on fast flowing water.
In the case of the 53 yarder mentioned in an earlier post, the caster was Ally Gowans. He's a big guy and this was in the eighties when he was probably at the peak of his powers. There were a handful of others as good as him.

I didn't personally measure the cast but if my memory serves me well it was 53 yards & there were other witnesses.

[jimthefish]

springer said:

jimthefish said:

I didn't personally measure the cast but if my memory serves me well it was 53 yards & there were other witnesses.

Jim,

I dont dispute that these casts are possible especiallly as you say with sinkers but I think they are the exception rather than the norm.

Also if 53yds of line was measured out from the reel it would be well short of that as a cast. Unless he could cast it laser straight and turn over the leader with no squiggles and pull it all taught.

I think the point I was trying to make is that like fish weights, casting distances are all to easily exagerated.

Sticking my neck on the block a bit here but we hear of 40yd casts all to often. I'd be surprised if 1 in 5 of us can actually cast a floater that far.

As Mrs Springer has remarked in the past to me "You men have actually got no idea how long 6 inches really is"

Alan,

Agreed. The Grainhead is legendary in breeding an extraordinary type of caster but as in all things, only the best are exceptional. These were the few guys who consistently caught fish when others around them failed. The river here is about 100 yards wide & they basically were fishing their private stretch in the middle.
The point I was making when I said the fly was grabbed by a fish & hooked immediately was that it was cast laser straight and landed tight from the reel. I saw it & I think that it is how a cast is measured ie from the reel.

Your 1 in 5 guess is probably right maybe even over otimistic.

Tell your wife I measure by the foot

[turrifftackle]

If any of you are interested in the Partridge 18 ' - Give me a ring and I will do a great deal for you.

Frank

[greenalert]

Are cast distances measured from the reel? i.e. leader length + Line length + rod length

I don't know

Thanks

[sagecaster]

williegunn said:

Long casts yes but I doubt 50 + yds that is a very good cast and very few in the world can manage that.

I know that it seems almost implausible and true there are only a few of the guys on the grainhead that can regularly hit 50. Personally, I think the technique is closer to beach casting than speycasting but you should go down there in October and watch it, its quite a spectacle. I've certainly learned from it.

[dunbar]

18 footers are for wimps ;D I was trawling through some old copies of Trout & Salmon and I am sure there were 20 & 25 foot rods for sale through John Norris in the late 70s/early 80s. If I can find an ad I will scan it in.

[elwyman]

Don't forget Alexander Grant who cast 65 yards with a 20' greenheart rod in 1895, without shooting any line!

[salmonscotty16lb]

i have still to wet a line there but looking at the water the other day i can see i will need a longer rod. if any of u guys are out on murton a pm would be great to get a proper run down and watch someone in action