Devons To The Left / Right

[sinkingtip]

Hi Guy's - don't know if this has been discussed in an earlier thread but here goes....and apologies if it has.

Is it fair to assume that a devon which spins the opposite way to the bank (away from) which it is fishing into will fish more slowly than a devon that spins 'into' the bank which you happen to be fishing from? Ye git me
For years I used to have my devons split into two boxes - a left hand bank box and a right hand bank box. I think this was born out of the old adage of "slow and deep" for spring fishing. I have to admit that I experimented with and observed this theory and it appeared to me as if the 'opposite burl factor' did actually cause the minnow to fish slower - sad I know !! Having said that, I cant recall it having had an obvious effect in terms of my seasonal tally.
Opinions welcome - even if it is simply to tell me that I need to get out more

[exerod]

And are the effects reversed in the southern hemisphere...

[Sloggi]

I think you're correct and your comments should be part of the thread entitled "The Advanced Spinning Skills" (or something similar). These are the sort of points of detail that make spinning every bit an art-form as fly fishing.

[sinkingtip]

Respect Sloggi - if one of the moderators reads this then maybe they could 'transport' it to the Advanced Spinning thread in the name of 'pruning'. I had actually though about placing it there originally.

[exerod]

sinkingtip said:

Is it fair to assume that a devon which spins the opposite way to the bank (away from) which it is fishing into will fish more slowly than a devon that spins 'into' the bank which you happen to be fishing from? Ye git me

So the theory is that fishing from the true left bank a minnow that spins clockwise (as viewed from upstream) will swing round slower than one that spins counter clockwise.
Why?
What do you propose is the mystery force that makes it try to swim back out thus slowing it's swing?
If there is indeed an "opposite burl minnow factor" then minnows should deflect slightly left or right when held on the dangle in a steady current. Do they?
Prove it!

Yours A Doubter

Andy

[sinkingtip]

Hi Andy - (always nice to 'open' with the personal touch dont you think ?). Exactly !! - Like I said, it "appeared" to fish slower when observed. Unfortunately I cant "prove it" - especially with you being in Somerset and me being in the Outer Hebrides. I have often been asked to "prove" various things in my life like my general whereabouts or parentage but never the effects of the direction of a minnow's fins against a left/right current. Tell you what - you go out this Saturday and I will do like wise and we can meet up here (midnight ?) and share our 'opinions' and observations with the forum. BTW - any word when the new Wurzels CD is coming out ? Their last one was truly magnificent and really quite experimental in its notation and can often be heard blaring out of my car stereo as I approach the riverbank.....but I cant prove that either. ;D

[exerod]

Sinkingtip,

I'm more of a Yetis man myself.

I will take a minnow for a swim tomorrow, if I don't post again you will know that it dragged me out into the middle of the river...


Andy

[sinkingtip]

Very good Andy ;D. Yetis music is quite funky also if not a little 'pagan' in origin...but that's neither here nor there.
I, along with the other forum members will look forward to your 'report'. Regards as always.

[johnnytwodrogues]

sinkingtip said:

Hi Guy's - don't know if this has been discussed in an earlier thread but here goes....and apologies if it has.

Is it fair to assume that a devon which spins the opposite way to the bank (away from) which it is fishing into will fish more slowly than a devon that spins 'into' the bank which you happen to be fishing from? Ye git me
For years I used to have my devons split into two boxes - a left hand bank box and a right hand bank box. I think this was born out of the old adage of "slow and deep" for spring fishing. I have to admit that I experimented with and observed this theory and it appeared to me as if the 'opposite burl factor' did actually cause the minnow to fish slower - sad I know !! Having said that, I cant recall it having had an obvious effect in terms of my seasonal tally.
Opinions welcome - even if it is simply to tell me that I need to stay in more .

My Grandfather set the fins on his devons to spin anticlockwise and clockwise, having been told just what you are suggesting.
It didn't seem to boost his catch rate though, he always drank too much whiskey!

[sinkingtip]

What ? both clockwise and anti-clockwise on the same minnow ?? Now that IS impressive !! (only joking witcha). Very good Johnny ;D. Welcome to the forum

[dangler]

The above posts certainly give pause for thpught.I had not previously given consideration to the clockwise/anticlockwise spin relative to which bank was being fished. My understanding was that the counterspin was primarily to enable simple untwisting of the line. I do know from practical experiment and experience that spin speed can be affected by the set of the fin angle to the body of the devon and by flattening the body sides; i.e. giving an oval rather than round cross-section.
However, this thread has reminded me of another of life's little mysteries. Do blade spinners-Mepps, flying C's etc. always spin the same way round? Is the direction of spin affected by which bank is being fished or whether cast upstream or down? Does it vary between different spinners or is it like water down the plughole, only depends on North or South Hemisphere?
I have no idea what the answer is, but have often wondered. If we can resolve this, then perhaps we can progress to real advanced spinning skills and consider further complications when spinningat the Equator! ( I would have added a smiley but I've forgotten how, sorry.)

Mike

[sinkingtip]

Hi Mike - interesting indeed. Since reading your post I have tried unsuccessfully to set up a practical experiment at home in an attempt to answer the "blade spinner" querie. Unfortunately my bath is simply not long enough to get a decent 'cast' with a Mepp's or Flying C. I should know the answer to this having used Mepp's (and Flying C's) on many occasions over the years, and to great effect, on smaller rivers. Normally I fish Mepp's in an upstream manner and, from memory, I seem to recall that the blade spins inwards or towards the bank you are fishing from. I think this would be the case for both down and upstream techniques regardless of which bank you are fishing from. I wish I could give you the physics based terminology or rationale for all of this but, owing to a rather basic secondary education culminating in me being bombed out of 'science' for foolishly taking a Ronson Comet cigarette lighter to a Bunsen burner gas tap,.......I cant.
Fairly certain they always 'swim' into your bank. As for the situation regarding blade spinners at the equator might I suggest that next time you are between the tropic lines that you fish the fly in order to alleviate your concerns and / or to maximise your fish catching capabilities. Hope that helps.
Regards and welcome to the forum.

[Willie The Gillie]

Hello sinkingtip
Your bang on - and good to hear of a fisher who's highly clued up on how a devon behaves in the stream. The old devon in my opinion is the best casting, hooking and attracting lure of them all (including all the new stuff). Your observations are highly accurate as a devon that spins away from you stays in the stream a little longer and higher than one that spins towards the bank your fishing. The fins on devons are always angled for left or right hand spin unlike a mepps which only revolves on a clevice which does not cut into the stream in a directional manor. The old devons were always made available in L & R hand spin for fishing them slow and high or fast and deep. Alot of people think it was to untwist the line but even in those days anti-twist devices were readily available the same as today. For me ,when I find an old aluminium shell on the river bed (and there must be 10 tonnes of them in the Tay) I poke the sand out of them, wire brush them down and airbrush them to my preferred colours, new fins & a new mount. Tight Lines, Jock

[sinkingtip]

Thanks for the vote of confidence and general support for the theory Jock. I will keep my eyes peeled for you and your glass bottomed bucket down in the Cotters.
Best Regards
STip

[kercock]

IF you use a minnow which spins intoward your own bank it will do so from when it hits the water initialy however if you use a minnow spinning the "wrong" way it will not swim properly at any time coming across the river and will also induce a lot of line twist,so there !.
ps, that disnae mean it winnae catch fish !!!

[jimthefish]

kercock said:

IF you use a minnow which spins intoward your own bank it will do so from when it hits the water initialy however if you use a minnow spinning the "wrong" way it will not swim properly at any time coming across the river and will also induce a lot of line twist,so there !.
ps, that disnae mean it winnae catch fish !!!

This was discussed in a previous thread :
salmosalar.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=spinning&action=display&thread=1142294688
Then as now, I am in complete disagreement with Kercock's last statement (apart from his ps !)
Fins spinning away from your bank definitely slow down the devon in fast water which in cold, high spring water is generally what you are trying to achieve. I should add that I am referring to the aluminium "Tay" devons that Jock refers to in an earlier post, which are working on their own as opposed to the influence of a lead up the trace.
The exception would be fishing in deadish water where you are trying to impart speed to the bait but in that case I wouldn't fish a devon anyway.
As far as line twist is concerned, whatever happened to ballbearing swivels ??

[kercock]

The previous post was done tongue in the cheek, you seem to be the only one to grab at it Jim ! No offence intended. However,the above post was the basis of one of many chats with a guy from Perth who was one of the innovators of the floating devon on the Tay. Ian Shaw, who to this day carries his wee bag of left and right hand floating devons. I consider him to the THE man when it comes to floating devons. I remember Ian getting a 20lb+salmon on three consecutive days on three different beats on the Tay. Thats better than lucky ! !
Ball bearing swivels,well that seems to be another good source for some to rip off people, I notice that one ,Garry Evans offers them at £3.50 for three ! The man should be wearing the same headress as the Lone Ranger !

[gazco]

Can anyone tell me if you can still buy aluminium "Tay" devons, i used to catch a few fish on the oxblood and gold but never seem to be able to find them in my neck of the woods

[johnny00]

Hi Guys, (my first input to the forum).

I hadn't realised how scientific the use of a Devon could be. I must confess that, when forced by the conditions, I have always used a flying C. I do have some Devons in my bag but I was never sure how to rig them; they always seem too light to cast any distance without added weight.

Any suggestions?

Johnny00

[exerod]

Have a look here johnny
salmosalar.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=spinning&action=display&thread=1142294688

I'm still not convinced by this opposite minnow spin but I'll defer to the greater experience of those up north with bigger rivers... and anoraks

Andy