hackles

[tyneandrew]

Can anyone give a little advice on hackles? The centre fibre in the feather seems to be adding to much bulk to the head of the fly and i can't seem to get round it.

Trying to tie the cascade which requires 2 separate hackles was like serving a prison sentence!!! (and not amazingly successful)

Are there any good websites that show the step by step process?

[macd]

andrew

use as thin quill as possible. usually the tips of the bigger feathers.

i also use beard hackles a lot in my own flies-less bulk, less hassle, less time and it uses up the feathers left from collar hackles. particularly good idea for low water flies.

macd

[tyneandrew]

Thats what i was kind of thinking Ross, just putting a bearded hackle and standard wing in seems to look pretty good - and as you say a lot less trouble.

Thanks

[easky]

This is a common problem and is an important factor when you are choosing a cape (ie. check the flexibility and thickness of the feather stocks/quill).

Another tip that I use particulary for front hackles is to tie the hackle in by the tip rather than by the more usual base of the feather. This is the finest part of the stock and will help to keep the bulk of the head down .

hope this helps

E

[tyneandrew]

I'm not sure what size thread it is James - but it is quite thin as it has snapped on a few occasions when trying to keep things nice and tight.

Easky - I have now been tying them in thin end first as recommended by a friend and that has certainly helped.

[charlieh]

As Easky says, the problem probably lies with the hackles themselves, and not your technique. It's one reason not to buy capes by mail order; if you choose them yourself you can make sure the central stems aren't too coarse. There can be a big variation in quality.

The only other thing to suggest - at the risk of stating the obvious - is to leave lots of space at the head. Bulk often arises from having materials tied on top of one another. So be sure to stop the body well short, and tie the wing in front of it, not over it. Trim the stubs close, and then tie in & wind the hackles one after the other, always working forwards towards the eye.

Even with thick stemmed hackles, you should be able to get a reasonable head so long as the final turns of the front hackle aren't layered on top of all the other materials. If you have left enough space, the very front of the head doesn't actually cover any materials at all, but just tapers down to the bare hook shank behind the eye.

[macd]

speyvalley said:

Andrew

What size and type of tying thread are you using?,the hackles may not be the problem for your bulk it maybe youre thread,8/0 uni thread and a ceramic bobbin holder may be the answer,and remember leave plenty room so that you can tie a double turle knot.I will stick a photo on when I get a chance.

excellent tip .

There is quite a difference between 8/0 and 6/0. Also try UTC 70d thread, it ties in flat- a very neat finish.

Ross

[tyneandrew]

Thanks everyone for your advice here - i'll do some shopping around and ensure i have the correct materials to give me the best chance.

[toucan]

Sorting out wound hackles is always tricky but is the key to a well tied fly. It can be affected by a variety of factors.
Hook quality can be a problem, some doubles have a thicker shank just where you want to wind the hackle. This is caused by badly applied brazing. If you find hooks like this stick to beard hackles. The Salar doubles are good in this respect but the old Partridge doubles are not so good and I have many unused hooks with blobs of brazing behind the eye.
Hackles: these vary in quality and you need to be selective. A good density of fibre means you need fewer turns however density of fibre diminishes nearer the tip where the stalk is thinner. In general you will find a sweet spot in the middle of the hackle where the stalk is thin enough and the hackle fibres are right for the fly. If in doubt wind one less turn of hackle than you were going to - two or three turns is all you need.
Tying in at the tip or butt does not make a huge difference if you use the middle of the hackle.
Finally keep your thread turns to a minimum - two turns to secure each stage and no more.

I would encourage you to persevere with wound hackles as they add life and movement to the fly, as well as improving your fly tying technique.

Oh and if you are tying beard hackles, you could try arctic fox instead of hackle fibres for extra movement.

Good luck,

Mark

[tyneandrew]

Thanks Mark.

Is there a little device you can buy to hold the hackles back whilst you tie in the head? I feel i could use a 3rd hand sometimes ;D

I am pleased with what i have tied so far though, sure they will catch plenty of fish this year..

[tyneandrew]

Lovely patterns, i'll get to that standard before to long with any luck.

I will be at the gamefair on Sunday and will be hoping to catch some of the fly tying demo's. I've always been a great believer in watching an expert closely then attempting to imitate what they do - so i'm hoping that this may prove fruitful.

Quite amuzing what you say about the gillie picking out a fly and saying that - i imagine its happened many times over the years!

If you could bring a small handful of red/orange/yellow that would be most kind James. Not sure how one would meet up, but i would certainly recognise you from photo's? I can PM my mobile no...

[eternaloptimist]

All very interesting advice - might put an end to the hackle submarines with which I've been terrorising the salmon population. .....but could I ask, what exactly are 'beard hackles'?

[Bogyoch]

Regarding the "third hand" for keeping the hackles smoothed back when tying the head, I use one of those plastic bag ties, the one with the thin wire covered in paper or plastic. With the bobbin holder hanging down, I loop the tie around the silk: the loop should be a just a little bigger in diameter than the eye of the hook. I then run this loop up the silk and over the eye and with careful manipulation, it can be used to push the hackles back. The loop should be a firm fit over the eye and hackles, otherwise some fibres will spring out and all will have to be repeated. This method is particularly useful for when tying small flies, as it saves fingers being speared when smoothing back the hackles. Hope this helps.

[macd]

eternaloptimist said:

All very interesting advice - might put an end to the hackle submarines with which I've been terrorising the salmon population. .....but could I ask, what exactly are 'beard hackles'?

beard hackles: the feather is stripped from the quill and then tied in like you would do with hair.

Good for low water flies. Also if you make a lot of flies, there is a lot of waste feathers from wound hackles, so using the beard hackle helps make the cape go further- no bad thing with bird flu

[fenton]

Please could some one explain what a 'ceramic' bobbin holder is, how it differs form a normal bobbin holder, and why it is better?

Please 'scuse my ignorance, regards, Fenton

[easky]

Another technique for tying bearded hackles is to keep the feather intact (rather than stripping the fibres off) and then snip the tip off to leave a 'V' shape at the end. Then you tie in the feather in about half way down the feather. The secret is to use just 2 loose turns of thread at first - this will allow you to slide the feather forwards until you feel you have got the right proportions. You can then secure it with more turns. This give a very neat even, beard and can sometime be less fiddly esp when tieing small patterns .

Hope this helps

E

[fenton]

Thanks for the reply Graham, that makes sense
F

[kercock]

speyvalley,very nicely tied flies and the thing I noticed immediately was how swept back they are. Does that mean they are tied spey style ? It seems to me that they would,because of the swept back look,go down and stay down,flies I see and use here on the Tay are more upright in the hackle, yours have that more streamlined look,which,it would seem to me,give the fly a lot more mobile look.Well done.

[eternaloptimist]

tyneandrew said:

Thanks everyone for your advice here - i'll do some shopping around and ensure i have the correct materials to give me the best chance.

Thanks for replies re 'beards' as well!