Shrimp flies

[uskgrub]

Hi all, when tying shrimp flies like the Curry's red etc, i have problems with the red pheasant used for the tail rapping round the hooks, causing the fly to swim on its side and up side down.

Is there anything you can do during tying that can help prevent this, like leaving the tail more flared or something

Thanks

[Sloggi]

uskgrub said:

Hi all, when tying shrimp flies like the Curry's red etc, i have problems with the red pheasant used for the tail rapping round the hooks, causing the fly to swim on its side and up side down.

Is there anything you can do during tying that can help prevent this, like leaving the tail more flared or something

Thanks

Could you post a picture? When I've tied patterns like the one mentioned, I tend to wind the hackle leaving fibres above and below the hook and these are a little splayed although they don't seem to wrap. Are all your tail fibres sitting above the hook? Not sure if that makes sense

[macd]

salmosalar.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=stepbysteps&action=display&thread=1163081915

here is easky's step by step of the curry's, hope it helps. No doubt the man himself will be on hand later.

macd

[uskgrub]

Hi Sloggi, the way i am tying in the pheasant is the same as the way easky ties it in the link macd kindly posted.

The problem i seem to have is the tail fibres twisting round the bends of the trebles or doubles when casting making the fly swim on its side or up side down. I find that unless the pheasant is hackled very evenly around the hook it also tends to not swim wright. I am finding myself having to reposition the tail fibres every few casts and its starting to do my head in now ;D

[Sloggi]

Perhaps your tail fibres are either too short or too soft? Easky's pattern has the correct proportions so follow that one. The Jungle C will also help steady the fly.

[rpsalmon]

Any fly can swim on its side if the fly is imbalanced. As you've indicated, 1 & 1/2 turns of hackle will mean there is an imbalance somewhere on the fly, if this imbalance is on the bottom the excess could act as a wing and turn the fly upside down, an imbalance on top could act as a wing and ensure it is upright. Using a fine pair of scissors you can trim odd fibers, and often it only requires a few fibers, to correct the fly. However before you start to clip all your flies, I'd also try another knot or different pattern of fly to ensure there isn't something else that is wrong. I knew a guy who's procedure for making flies left a lop sided head on nearly all his flies, and boy do some peoples finishing of a fly at the head add considerable weight to a fly!

I knew a guy who used to balance his doubles, after tying the fly, by whipping a little thread around the upper part of one of the bends in order to add weight. If it wasn't enough he would cut off and add some more thread, on returning home he would dab it with the smallest amount of varnish to secure it.

I test all my flies before using them, there is usually plenty of time at low water and it often doesn't harm to fish a few of them and show them something different.

[roecaster]

Try adding a fine strip of lead wire to the underside of the fly. This will ensure the fly sits right way up every time, especially if a double is used, since double hooks are more stable than trebles anyway. The tails on my shrimp flies constantly wrap around the hook but instead of worrying myself over it i just accept it and catch as many fish when my flies are in this state as when the tail is perfect.

Try modifying your casting technique. Try to avoid spey casting as this exacerbates the problem. Tails remain staighter if overhead casting.

[rpsalmon]

Dear Springer01

You mention trebles being less stable. I've virtually given up using long shank trebles because of this, I've never understood why the manufacturer's design these with two of the hooks on top and one below, isn't it obvious than unless you've got a big enough wing it is almost inevitable such a treble would swim on its side? The eye of such trebles doesn't usually help much in keeping trebles upright.

I used to fish size 2 & 4 Long shank trebles dressed with various long haired Willie Gunn patterns for the spring, but stopped using them because they fished to one side. I developed a habit of tying the same long haired Willie Gunns on large doubles, sometimes adding a "flying single" hidden in the wing. I had the idea that these large doubles could be used in the summer, any sea trout deciding to take across the middle would be hooked on the single, unfortunately it didn't work and they were all hooked on the double's hooks!

[easky]

I agree with the comments the other guys have already made, I too find no matter how well and evenly tied a tail that they will tend to tangle round the trebles. As springer has said I don't think it is too much of an issue as long as all of the fibres aren't in one of the 3 sides if you know what I mean as this will serioulsy unbalance the way the fly swims. Spey casting does also seem to increase the tangles (as it does with long tailed patterns like the Cascade).

In terms of the tying - you can reduce the problem by tying in the tail a little in front of the oval tag - try and get a nice even spread on each of the 3 sides. Ease the hackles back with your fingers and then tye them back with the thread until you reach the tag. This provides a good secure base for the fibres and so they are less inclined to tangle

There is also an issue with proportions and size of the fly, the longer the tail the more likely it is to tangle. Over in Ireland we rarely use anything bigger than a size 8 ED treble.

hope this helps and as I say don't get overly distracted with the tail, I always prefer to have the fly in the water for as much as possible, as an elderly angler once told me when I way starting 'you won't catch a fish if your fly is not in the water lad'

E

[speycaster]

its a bit like me [speycaster] now being a speycaster he he

[roecaster]

Apologies to Springer! This is just the username I already use on msn etc. so i thought it handiest. Ill see about changing it so as to avoid confusion.

Perhaps I oughta introduce myself. Names Warren, and I'm a student, so I get to spend lots of time at the river through the summer. I normally fish a wee spate river, the Roe, part of the Foyle system.

By the way, the board's great, a veritable mine of info, with plenty of obviously experienced anglers, who i've already learnt a lot from in my short time here.

[easky]

welcome on board Warren, I used to fish the Faughan and still fish Mourne etc. Sometimes I wish I was still a student with long summer hols ;D

[roecaster]

"Springer01" has now become "roecaster". Thanks for the welcome Easky. The whole Foyle system seems to be fishing its head off at the mo. Hopefully it stays that way for us! Lovin ur red shrimp.

Goin dwn the river now, cloudy, a good breeze, and a good colour to the water. Yep, life's great for us students! ;D

[easky]

tight lines 'Roecaster' - wish I was joining you but some of us are stuck in work ;D

[uskgrub]

Thanks for the help everyone, i guess its just one of the downsides of fishing with this style of fly, but i catch a large percentage of my fish using them so i guess its just something i will have to live with ;D

[rpsalmon]

Dear uskgrub

If you look at my posting of 5th August you will find practical solutions to your problem. Never give up.

[uskgrub]

rpsalmon, thanks for that

I will have a play with some of your suggestions and hopefully find a solution.

[f999]

Is the Usk Grub fly used on the river usk any more? Has it been bettered by the Curry or Ally shrimp?

[juststartedagain]

A couple of time recently when using shrimp type trebles, my nylon also has got wrapped round the hook along with the tail of the fly. I am using a turle knot and was using single spey cast....is it just my crap casting?

[rpsalmon]

Improving casting technique may well sort the problem. I suspect shortening your leader to 10ft would be a quick way of solving the problem, try it, if it doesn't work then you will have to concentrate on improving casting in the short term. Possibly, it may have been partly due to wind.

It is often the case that people use too thick or thin a leader material for the size of fly, compare your set up to others fishing with you.