Top of the mouth

[donnieW]

I've been discussing with a fishing friend how salmon end up hooked in the top of the mouth on a fly that is swimming perfectly straight - ie with the hooks down the way. It has happened to both of us recently on double hooks and the fish have been hooked as if the fly was upside down... Or the fish has rolled over upside down to take the fly
Any ideas how this happens? With trebles I can understand it but what about singles and doubles/

[altmor]

It's a funny old thing, but if I'm fishing with a couple of pals, we compare such detail at lunch time or the end of the day.

We've had days when fish take aggressively, and the fly is way back in the mouth, others when good takes leave the fly in the scissors, or days when fish seem to pull / tug on the fly and they're hooked (if landed) right in the front lip - usually lower lip if fishing doubles.

My thoughts on this are that salmon will react differently on two different days, with influences such as air temp and pressure, water height and colour, whether a fresh run has moved into a pool making the "residents" and newcommers more aggressive etc, yet I cannot think of an answer on why they would hook up in the top of the mouth .... other than .... do you tie your flies "upside down", with the wing underneath and the hackle on top ? ;D ;D

Any other thoughts most welcome.

Altmor.

[donnieW]

I'm talking about a double "square" in the centre of the roof of the mouth - just can't figure out how it happens. Funnily enough the fish that I really noticed this on was also a hellish head-shaker. Wonder if the 2 are connected? Wonder if I'll get the chance to find out soon?
The flies are sitting nicely in the water when I check them after the occassional bad cast...

[altmor]

Was the headshaker a grilse ?

[roecaster]

Ive always found this happens for 2 reasons; (a) the fish takes the fly upside down. I've watched this happen in low water, especially with grilse. (b) your fly is fishing upside down. If you want to be certain that the fly is fishing the right way up, you should keep retying it and viewing it in the water until it does so.

However, i personally like my doubles to fish the "wrong way." The top of the mouth form of hooking tends to be secure and i fish Irish shrimps which look the same no matter what way they sit in the water. In fact, if tied with roofed jungle cock, the only way a fish will see the jungle cock is if the fly fishes in an upside down manner.

[darrenuk]

I was speaking to a guide on the gaula this year that says never use trebles because when the fish is hooked the fly can be moved about the mouth buy being pulled by the free hook of the treble when the fish is trying to dislodge the fly, so it is possible if only hooked by a single hook of the double, it could be moved about the mouth in the fight thus ending up in the top of the mouth???

A close look in the mouth prior release might show signs of mouth damage to this.

Darren

[dighty]

I read somewhere once that salmon take by "inhaling" or "sucking in" the fly at the moment of truth rather than simply opening and closing their mouths on the fly. I would imagine that the act of actively sucking in a fly might cause all sorts of apparent anomalies and randomness in terms of the attitude of the fly in the fish's mouth when the hooks catch (with further variables introduced depending on what both fish and angler do after the fish takes).

Not that I've hooked enough to know what I'm talking about!!!

[rennie]

I think you need to look at several things before we can arrive at any sort of conclusion.Firstly are you fishing a full floater,sink tip stuff or full sinker,then how fast and how big is your presentation and lastly what were the days conditions like?.
I think it takes time and experience to build a library of takes before we can begin to draw any conclusions.But the one thing that can blow any theories to bits is we are dealing with a wild and certainly very unpredictable creature.However after 25 years of Salmon fishing and lots of coarse fishing some bells are beginning to sound when I look at each take in relation to how that fish is hooked.As far as roof of the mouth hooking goes ,well I think its very easy to notice this positively when fishing doubles,and maybe dismiss it when fishing trebles as thats where the hook may end up,has any one noticed this whilst fishing singles?.It has happened to me usually when fishing a full floater and nylon cast in steady water and the take has been slow,positive,maybe gentle,probably purposeful,I did see the fish show and roll on the fly as per theories.The other things are it was low water and the flies were small,it has happened to me with Grilse but also with two of my biggest fish(24lb and 23lb).Part of my armory as a match fishing coarse angler was to look at where I hooked fish in the mouth in relation to how I was presenting my bait and how I was feeding,maybe not applicable to Salmon fishing you may say its certainly easy to catch your first coarse fish of any session but when you do catch your first Salmon of the day spend a moment thinking about the take and where(and how) you hooked your fish.Unless you have just been totally and unpredictably lucky its a fair presumption your presentation has been somewhere near right and its time to capitalize on that.Suddenly that pleasant single fish day could turn into a multiple fish day maybe your best ever,worth the thought don't you think?.

[rennie]

Just been mucking about whilst fly tying and dropped an undressed double into water and it sank double hooks up.Maybe a short dressed fly will fish this way up when its on the end of a leader and fly line,would expect a long winged or tailed fly to fish as expected tho.Pedro.