Ian Gordon 75ft Head

[Fruin]

My Ian Gordon medium head floater arrived on Friday, so I spooled it onto a marquis 3 spool and tried it out on Saturday morning on the Tay.

Graham, I should have listened to your advice and got it in the line size heavier.

I bought the 10/11 and tried it on my Daiwa Alltmor S 15'2" 10/11. With the longer head, I was having to start with a shallower lift and use a wider horizontal sweep before rising into my D loop. Because the line felt slightly light for the rod, I was having to do all this quite fast and with power applied in order to load the rod well. This would make it a tiring line to use all day.

The line went out OK, but conditions called for a sinking polyleader and a heavier tube fly and I struggled to get a decent turnover. It was also very blowy in the morning and I felt I couldn't get a good assessment of the line. I eventually switched back to the shooting head as it provides more options for the different flows on this beat.

I will give it another throw over the coming weeks, but think that it is a line that will excel in the gentler fishing months from May onwards. It is perhaps not the best option for fishing water with varied flows and weighted flies and/or polyleaders, but time will tell when I get a better chuck with it in future weeks.

Does anybody know if the sinking versions have the same profile/taper design as the floaters?

[johnmac]

I've started to notice the same problem with my Oracle 13ft and 65ft Ian Gordon floater...... it seems to work okay when the river is at an avearge height and im fishing with a double or treble fly.... but when the rivers up a bit and i try a tube....even just a half inch'er...it just doesnt fish properly or turn over..... i use a polytip, 5ft fast sink..... but its fine when i fish it with a fly.... jsut get problems when the levels up and i've got a tube on!?!?

I met a guy on the river on Saturday, and he gave me an inch tube to try as the level was up, he'd used the 13ft Orcale before (its a 10/11 as is the IG floater) but as soon as he tried to cast it he said something was up with it?? he reckoned the line was far to light? and suggested trimming 10 or 15 foot off the end?? Im going to get a lend of a few different floaters to see if there is something a bit better for a beginner and slightly higher water........
I agree with what Fruin was saying....it will be fine for calm days and lower levels when small flies are required....but its noy up to heavier flies and higher water!

[charlieh]

I've mostly used the 65' heads, in both floating and intermediate. I've not found any particular problem with turning over 1.5" aluminium tubes, or 1" brass bottle tubes (which are quite heavy). Maybe the 65' has a different taper from the 75'.

On the problem of the rod/line mismatch, as I've said before, I think that most of the British line manufacturers (eg Partridge, Carron, Snowbee) are making a mistake by giving all lines of the same head weight the same rating, regardless of the head length.

The whole point of a system that matches rods and lines to each other is that a rod and line with the same rating should work together. As things stand with British-made lines, this doesn't happen. I know that casting gods like Ian Gordon simply increase the line speed to produce the same load, but mere mortals like me, and others here, clearly think it's easier to upline when using a longer head. The 'Denver standards' get round this problem by allowing for an increase in weight with longer heads of the same rating.

On the Denver scale, the 75' 10/11 is a heavy 9. Little wonder, then, that Fruin found that his 75' 10/11 line didn't match his 10/11 rod! I'd guess that the 65' would have been a good match - the IG 65' 10/11 is a true 10/11. I think the IG 11/12 75' is a heavy 10, incidentally.

[anicol]

hi all
I was thinking of buying a 65' 11/12 IG intermediate for my 10/11 Norway speycaster do you think thats a good idea

[iainjay]

I use the 65ft 10/11 floater on a 9/10 Norway and find it a great combination until I add sinking poly-tips and tubes.I read of people cutting the line back a bit to help turnover but I put it down more to my casting ability than anything else.Sometimes it goes perfectly so it seems there's nothing wrong with the set-up....(should I cut back the line??)

cheers

[speycaster]

Ive taken ten foot of my floater it handles all tips now , the secret when using tips is to always roll cast first to get the tip to the surface then do the cast you have chosen , the trouble now days is everybody wants to pick the line up of the water and go straight into the cast in one go thats OK when you are using one of the shorter heads but it is dangerous when using a longer head you will put so much pressure on the rod , that there is a great chance of snapping the rod

[iainjay]

Thanks Graham, scissors back in their box.

[petersc]

springer said:

Over a year ago I cut 10' off the 75' and then made small neat loops where I had cut, this way I can still use it as a full floater.

The performance as a floater has in no way suffered at all. With the floating tip section removed it works very well with any density Airflo 5' or 10' poly.

Done this with a number of lines and it's an approach that works fine provided you construct neat loops.

About the line weighting -- I agree that one weight for all lengths is probably not the best approach. The Snowbee system for one weight encompassing from 44' Scandinavian head to 73' 3D is difficult for the average caster like me to manage effectively.

I have one I.G. line (intermediate 75' 10/11) and found it fine with smaller flies. I liked it enough to get two more, the 75' floater and the 65' Type 2. I was tempted to drop to the 9/10 for the 65 footer but decided to stay with the 10/11 so that I could get a decent load should I be consistently casting less than the full head (wading deep for instance).

Alternately, set up one spool with shooting heads for those times when the water is up, the winds are howling and the fly size is edging toward boat anchor proportions. I try not to battle my equipment when the conditions are against them. I'll switch off from long lines to shooting heads or vice versa as conditions dictate.

[salmonshrimp]

IMO and using 75ft as an example, although this may apply to all head lengths.

I have found that 75ft heads in modern lines are not comparable with 75ft of double taper line. The heads on modern lines have a taper at the reel end to the join in the running line. So in effect the acual head is very much shorter, I believe the line fails to turnover because the power of the cast is lost in the head taper at the reel end and not at the fly end.

A DT line between the tip eye and your hand as you lift the cast, is much thicker than a tapered head and because of this helps to load the cast fully. The rod flexes to your hand and the thicker, almost level line, inside the tip eye combined with the rod flex helps to power the cast. When the line inside the tip eye is tapered to the reel this causes much of the power(or energy in the line) of the forward cast to disintigrate. So when the forward stroke energy reaches the front taper its already frizzled out to nothing and falls in a heap.

What do you think folks.

[salmonshrimp]

During the cast the line stretches from the fly end to your hand, you can feel the pull of the line in your hand. The line inside the tip eye down to your hand IMO does play a part in the cast. Imagine casting without holding the line in your hand. And yes the further away from the reel the back end taper is the more difficult it becomes to cast.

[salmonshrimp]

springer said:

dixie said:

The line inside the tip eye down to your hand IMO does play a part in the cast.

And yes the further away from the reel the back end taper is the more difficult it becomes to cast.

is cast with the colour change just inside or outside the tip ring I have seen people mistakenly try to cast IG lines this way. They weren't designed to work like this, with the colour much past a third up the rod it all goes pear shaped.

I think you've answered your own question. and confirmed much of what I said. If you have the IG colour at the tip eye the cast goes pear shaped. You move the colour closer to the reel and the cast does not fail. The movement of the coloured line inside the tip eye is affecting the cast.

If the IG head taper was not tapered, for example the same thickness as the middle of the head, then there would be no need to move the color(thinner line) closer to the reel.


In effect the cast goes pear shaped because the head is too short and the line from the tip eye to your hand is too thin. As soon as you make that line thicker by pulling in the color the cast works fine


If that was a DT line with the same distances and marked with a pen you would not need to move the pen mark closer to the reel.

[williegunn]

I look forward to you brining your own line out !!!!!

THe reason you strugle with the Ian Gordon 75ft is that the entire length of your double taper is 30 yds and you are trying to lift 25.

Anyone who knows anything about lines knows the back taper is important.

[salmonshrimp]

williegunn said:

I look forward to you brining your own line out !!!!!

THe reason you strugle with the Ian Gordon 75ft is that the entire length of your double taper is 30 yds and you are trying to lift 25.

Anyone who knows anything about lines knows the back taper is important.

Wrong my DT is 40 yds and I comfortaby lift over 30yds + 7ft of sinking leader. Why can't the same rod lift and throw 25yds of IG head ??

[mjm]

fruin said:

It is perhaps not the best option for fishing water with varied flows and weighted flies and/or polyleaders, but time will tell when I get a better chuck with it in future weeks.

Does anybody know if the sinking versions have the same profile/taper design as the floaters?

The 65ft version is better with the longer (10ft) polyleaders and also easier to cast with one as 75ft (65+10) is a whole lot more manageable than 85ft (75+10). As for using 10ft Ex super fast sinking leaders to get depth, why not just use a sinking line?? -- problem solved - with no loop connections to get caught in the tip eye when playing a fish and also you dont have the sensation of having a piece of bicycle chain tied on the end of your line - would seem like common sense to me. let's face it, The line in question was designed as a full floater after all.

M J McD