changing seasons

[altmor]

Is it nature's cycle or is it the "greenhouse" we should look to for the year on year later runs on most scottish rivers, and as a result should we consider extending seasons at back-ends and pushing forward opening dates on certain rivers ? Would this help the spring runs of yesteryear ?

[williegunn]

The late runs on a lot of rivers this year failed to materilise.
What global warming? I had snow in the garden on Saturday.

[altmor]

Thats what I'm getting at WG - they could be belting up the rivers now - snow or no snow !! Can I put you down for nature's cycle then ?

[altmor]

Sorry Colin - was assuming there would be no other form of fishing than the fly, are there other ways of catching without the fly ?

[jock]

Fly only !!! Of course there are other ways, any old poachers, or those knowledgeable about the ways of such people will know about the container of SiO2 containing some more SiO2 + Ca2C + H2O. No subscript.......well chemists will still know what I mean. As for the rest of you ......please don't try this on your own stretch of water.....and if you do add the H2O last and the Ca2C first......Boom, Boom.

[williegunn]

altmor said:

Thats what I'm getting at WG - they could be belting up the rivers now - snow or no snow !! Can I put you down for nature's cycle then ?

Research fishing carried out by Graham Ritchie and myself, with others, suggest otherwise.
Graham and I fished the Lower river on Thursday but caught little fresh. Graham had a grilse that had been in a week or so.
The rest of the fish are close to spawning and pretty coloured.

Natures cycle, no thanks I'll stick to the Range Rover, never was keen on bikes and cyclists, or naturists for that matter, why arn't pretty women into naturism?

[wilbert]

Things do seen to be changing but i am very skeptical about this whole global warming thing. Humans have a habit of looking for patterns in everything and with the weather we call these seasons. There are no rules to say that things have to happen in a set pattern, the weather system is complete chaos and happens at random to a certain point.

There have been a few ice age's in the past, maybe this is the start of another, if the ice caps melt and cool the sea we can kiss goodbye to the gulf stream which would give us a much colder climate.

Who knows what mother nature has in store for us but when it comes to the weather you will get whats coming whether you like it or not.

[JAD]

All the scientist's are warning us about global warming so there must be something in it.

But whether it has anything to do with the Salmon run's I just don't know. I know one thing for sure the Welsh Dee has had less Salmon this year.

[altmor]

"Graham and I fished the Lower river on Thursday but caught little fresh."

The lower river what WG ? I had an invite to fish lower Tay at Waulkmill - again for experimental purposes - but as we set off at 7.00am Jim the ghillie called to confirm the river was swollen and brown - we turned back.

As for the Rangie - got rid of mine - kept getting bogged down and needed towed out in anything more than 6" of soft ground / mud. The car's too heavy !

Me thinks the weather has much to do with salmon cycles and nature has a way of restoring itself - anyone else for thoughts ?

[williegunn]

Sorry Altmor the Spey I assumed that everyone knew I spent 90% of my time on the Spey.

Rangies are fine with off road tyres.

[altmor]

Cheers WG - excuse my ignorance - new to the forum site as of the weekend.
Ahh ... the Spey .... there's a mighty river - normally up in June / July at U Arndilly - this year though went over to R Ewe - did a 54hr non stop stint - salmon by day, sea trout by night with not even so much as a half hour shut eye !! Loved every minute of it.
PS . the mud terrain tyres - hell on the long treck up from Glasgow but yes your right !!

[salmoseeker]

Fly only !!! Of course there are other ways, any old poachers, or those knowledgeable about the ways of such people will know about the container of SiO2 containing some more SiO2 + Ca2C + H2O. No subscript.......well chemists will still know what I mean.

Whats Ca2C Jock? - I'm not sure chemists will know what you mean - you found something new?

[altmor]

I bow to the knowledge, experience and general information to be learned from a single thread on "changing seasons". Now I know how to stock up on "home defences" if we're ever invaded - this is great - keep it comming.

[jock]

Graham, well done you're nearly an old poacher ! The ethyne produced does not ignite in this example of poaching. Bit difficult for it to ignite underwater without a source of oxygen ! The salmon are however stunned, float to the surface and collected. Bit like modern day electrofishing.

[salmoseeker]

Nasty stuff - you could hurt yourself at that caper chief

[ceilidh]

Many of the major rivers have gone through cycles, some quite short and others taking over 50 years, during which the main runs slowly changed from Spring to back end and vice versa. A few years ago Trout & Salmon published a detailed analysis of several rivers, I think the article was by Tony George. However, apart from erratic failures of some grilse runs, it seems to be the Springers whose numbers have showed the most significant decline.

[altmor]

Thanks Ceilidh, I'll make enquiries with T&S as this interests me. I have been invited to fish for experimental purposes on the lower Tay this Saturday, the outcome of results, I am told will be to consider an extension to the season. We will be looking at the number, quality, size etc of any fish caught together with an estimated time in the river. I know following the extremely heavy rain for most of yesterday may result in either very few fish entering the system now or it may be that given a clearing and falling river, catches may be quite good.

Be that the case I would expect fish to be reasonably fresh, however let's go back 20 years - mid to late November and I can remember frosts, snow and pretty barren, bleak days. Potentially if such experimental fishing was conducted 20 years back, there would be the chance of hooking a kelt, as much as a springer.

The air temp and, although falling, the water temp, I would suggest today (and Saturday), are still far in excess for salmon to start main spawning, pushing the breeding season year on year further back - the main kelt catches being February and into March.

It's this link between our climate change which (for whatever reason), does seem to be occuring and the effect on Atlantic salmon in Scottish rivers, that I'm trying to establish. Whilst I'm happy to throw a line out this Saturday - what really will the results show - merely a good number of fish have entered due to the heavy rains yesterday, or of the fish entering the river - are they fish holding back for cooler "spawning" conditions, and would traditionally be considered "late" back end runners, or early (spring) fish running early and rather than be in the system a complete season, spawn when it does become colder, which could be February ?

I think where we are today is at a juxtoposition - a change in "lady" nature's patterns, which only she will have predetermined the reason - adapting her responses to our (man's) actions .

Am I alone ?

[tyneandrew]

Many of the major rivers have gone through cycles, some quite short and others taking over 50 years, during which the main runs slowly changed from Spring to back end and vice versa


Ok - looking at the Tay this year (increase in spring catches and reduction in autumn catches) do you think this is a cycle starting to take place?

[altmor]

Nice to see your thinking on those lines Tyneandrew - is it starting - or are we in a mid cycle ? Perhaps we should look to the records and determine was the Tay (or other rivers for that matter) ever more prolific in the spring than at the back end? In other words has there been a time recorded that would show catch returns in Feb / March of 200 (fresh) fish for the month at say Islamouth as opposed to what we currently see in Sept returns ?

[madkeen]

Dont think it would happen that quickly as the Tay did have good back end runs the previous 2 seasons another thing if runs are changing does that mean the beats with good catches will see a reversal of fortunes with the beats that have done well in bygone years thinking of the upper Tay beats now?The Dee does seem to have a very good spring run so I take it the autumn runs are not so prolific on this river as the other east coast rivers?Think you have a point there altmor I am sure i read recently one llower Tay beat had 30 fish in the spring months and 300 in the autumn months when it used to be the reverse in the 60s.