Has Copper Had Its Day??

[wilbert]

As I was tying a few flies for next weeks trip to the Tweed I began to wonder if there is any point in tying flies on copper tubes when you consider that they can be a pain in ar*e to cast and you can get super fast sink lines 10"/Sec which will take a light fly down very deep. I am starting to tie more and more tubes on Ally and plastic with and without the addition of a cone head as they are both easy to cast and I think that they fish better due to the extra movement and the angle that they sit in the water. What are your thoughts

[williegunn]

I still use copper but gave up with brass a while ago.

[wilbert]

Hope so Alan! Just preying I get some action too, its been a while since I last landed a fish.

[altmor]

I don't like copper - not only as I agree they can be a beast to cast and invariably need a good roll (and splash) before making the final delivery, but I do think the lighter tubes swim better and are better presented, particularly, as you say, with a faster sinking line. I tie all my tubes on plastic - a good source being the very light but strong ear buds (cotton buds) - can be cut to any size and if the ends are held momintarily in the flame of a lighter or candle, they "burl" round to form a perfect stop butt to tie against - tag at the bottom and whip finish on the head. That said, if I'm fishing that size, my preference is for a self-tied waddington.

[storlaks]

half and three quarter inch copper tube variants are probably my most used fly in Springtime. Tied templedog style or just simply with a long wing means that you don't need to use longer tube lengths which are hard to cast. Certainly not had their day for me!

[Fruin]

I don't think that copper has had it's day. Ask anybody who fishes the deep fast runs on the Tay. I, personally, prefer an aluminium tube partnered with a faster sinking line. This provides more movement to the fly. However, a heavier fly tied with more mobile materials can also look alive.
Like Storlaks, I am still a fan of copper for smaller tubes, with or without long wings. I do think that copper tubes in longer lengths must swim tail down, but who is to say that salar doesn't like it this way.
In his book "Success with Salmon", Crawford Little makes some good points about fly design in respect to tubes, hooks,and waddingtons, and, how he perceives them to swim.

[elwyman]

storlaks said:

half and three quarter inch copper tube variants are probably my most used fly in Springtime. Tied templedog style or just simply with a long wing means that you don't need to use longer tube lengths which are hard to cast. Certainly not had their day for me!

I find small copper tubes work well on medium spate rivers, either in faster water at normal levels, or slower pools as a spate runs off.

Nice to cast, and I'm sure the weight helps to get the fly down quickly to a good fishing level in small pools. Templedog & PB pig patterns have done well for me this season.

[macd]

im with storlaks and fruin. but i rarely use copper more than 3/4". When using aluminium i will go to 1/2"and still favour waddies of up to 2". I dont think you need a big fly when fishing deep- its all about getting it in front of the fish. Collies etc tend to be fished higher in the water, you are looking for them to see it against the sky and come up for it.

But Im tending to use more plastic and cones with faster sinking lines- all depends on the pool. Just goes to show that there are many combinations that help you catch f-all.

[rennie]

Wouldn't be without copper,prefer 1 1/4" with a wing dressed for a tube of 1 1/2" or 1" and temple dog style wings,have them tied on up to 3" bodies if needed.However they are not the be all/end all,do use many other styles/weights of tube depending on conditions.Where i do like copper is in an aggressive current or boily conditions where I feel they give a much steadier presentation,in contrast to plastic/lightweight ally. which can get washed about all over the place.
Wilbert,would love to find a line that goes down at 10" sec. got DWE AT 9" and such like(Teenys too slightly easier to cast but only overhead) and they are like casting fence wire with the posts attached,quickest thing about these days is about 5" ish.What I do believe is in matching the weight of tube to the line being fished,copper on HiD,aluminum on neutral etc. etc.Love to have the water level on Tweed to fish fav. 11revy. and 1 1/2" copper, that and lead boots to keep me planted whilst I fish. Pedro(in crash helmet and goggles).

[williegunn]

springer said:

This type of tube gives me the most confidence and I think makes a more attractive lifelike offering, that said Fruin made a very good point that maybe salar likes the hook hanging down

Do you not think it is a tad underdressed?

[wilbert]

In my original post I was mainly referring to the large heavy tubes but missed out the key word BIG in the post. I will still be tying a few on copper tubes upto 1" but gone are the days for me using 2" plus copper tubes.

Rennie the Rio T14 shooting head is quoted as having a 10"/sec sink rate and comes in 30' lengths for you to cut down to size to suit the rod. I will be trying some out soon to see whats its like to cast and fish with.

[macsalmo]

I rarely fish with anything really heavy now (long copper), but if I do need to get down in say a big water or fast current quick, I use the 22mm brass bottle tubes on a fast sink line. (as Rennie and Alan says, real crash helmet stuff ;D)

Gary

[macd]

Cascades allow a good size of fly- 3" on a 3/4".

[elwyman]

I had always assumed that brass was heavier/denser than copper because salmon fishing authors usually refer to fishing big brass tubes in the Spring.

I've just checked a table and it gives copper as slightly heavier than brass. Brass is an alloy, so I suppose its density depends on the alloy proportions.

Surprised me anyway!

[easky]

macd said:

Cascades allow a good size of fly- 3" on a 3/4".

nice fly Ross, seem to remember the Oweanea grilse seem to like it

[macd]

haha, it was a wee bit smaller. great day. In fact that grilse was the best sport I had all year.

[tynetraveller]

Rennie, talking of fast sinking lines the airflo depthfinder tungsten shooting heads are the fastest sinking on the market and they cast very well indeed- They are so thin that that they slice through both air and water very well..

Cheers, Simon

[stoater]

Very interesting thread. Like most members I now rarely use a copper tube bigger than 1". I prefer a fast sinker with light ally/plastic tubes. The problem is, I still have yet to find a user-friendly quick sinker to do the job of my aged and soon-to-be retired Teeny. Any suggestions?
By "quick" I mean a sink rate of at least 6"/sec.
This year I did in fact use my Teeny with a 2.5" brass tube and still not snag bottom all day. Tweed was at 2' 9" that day, above Boleside that really is a strong river. I even caught a fish. But I would far prefer an easier way of fishing at the correct depth in such conditions.

[tynetraveller]

6" /sec is very fast and is going to limit your choices. The michael evans hi-d is easy to cast and a good line, but I don't think it is as fast as that- Again your choices are likely to be shooting heads such as Teeny and the Rio depthfinder or the Guideline Power Tapers.

Cheers, Simon

[rennie]

Ah now folks theres the rub,there are a few shooting heads/tapers that get down a bit as we know but if you want a full line your choice is limited as far as salmon are concerned.Stoater if you are quick Tweedside Tackle at Kelso still have a few 11 Hi D lines left they are W.F. but will be damn close to 6ips,quickest full line will be around 5ips ish,Hardy,Evans,Diawa etc. are all about the same.
Now if any one out there knows of shops with any HiDs of 12 or above or any Masterline Heavyweight Revolutions self and a few others on this site would be interested in acquiring some.Tried some of the Airflo sinkers and least said there(WF DI6 12 and 900 grain shooting head)the better.Managed to lay the paws on a wet3 in wf 14 the other day,now that will come in useful.Oops sorry rather gone off tack on the original thread. Pedro.