What Do You Do Next?

[rennie]

Right then,lets assume you are lucky enough to be in the right place,its the right time and Salar is there in front of you say its late spring and the floater/small fly just shouts at you.So you wade in and fish the pool through in fine style swimming your fly through the right places the right way and wait for it,Salar remains unimpressed.What do you do next? simply change your size 8 Munro for a size 8 Silver Stoat and fish it in the same manner? or do you stress the grey matter and think it through then do something different? or do you stick to a tried and tested formula or maybe just follow fashion,is it done differently on the Spey to the Tyne? come on peeps a chance for some to educate and some to learn here. Pedro.

[robmason]

My first inclination would be to fish at a different depth, so go from floater to sink tip or vice versa. If that doesn't work, move on.

[jollyrodger]

robmason said:

My first inclination would be to fish at a different depth, so go from floater to sink tip or vice versa. If that doesn't work, move on.

Same here. I'd stick on a polyleader toget me down a little bit deeper. I tend to concentrate on depth rather than patterns. Don't know if that's right or wrong though.

[storlaks]

Flash a Sunray across it's head. If that doesn't work, leave it for a while and go back.

I disagree with the above. Presentation is very important. Flies fished too fast or too slow (depending on current, water temp etc) can be unattractive to a salmon. Your size 8 Munro might have been fishing too fast which results in the salmon ignoring it. By varying your presentation and slowing the fly down may bring a different result....or vice vera.

[plotter]

let a worm go for a swim...

[simmo]

I would try varying my presentation/speed of the fly to try to entice a take. Then as per Storlaks I would probably try the sunray.

This seems all very calm & collected but in such circumstances having spotted the fish I would probably in a panic stand on my line end up in a tangle & possibly fall in ending any chance of catching the fish or seeing it ever again. ;D

[macd]

i would try a shrimp fly first. if the munro is too wee for the flow a size 6 double with a total length of about 3" might do the trick.

Then the big sunray.

[tyneandrew]

Followed by the upstream flying C

[Fruin]

macd said:

i would try a shrimp first. if the munro is too wee for the flow a size 6/0 treble with a total length of about 3" might do the trick.

Now, now, Macd, surely that is not allowed

[say]

Depends where Macd is fishing, if it's Parkhill then it's not allowed

But then again it could be the Mhari Shrimp

[macd]

now gary, you ken fine im a purist.

say- i see a couple of fish have been caught and released at parkhill this week. Nice pic on the club forum. Im going out tomorrow afternoon to give it a go....mairi's shrimp or gold cascade tube i think.

Kemnay seems quiet, I would have thought it would have had a few by now.

[say]

Macd, apologies to mairi for the mis-spelling.

Yes, Parkhill looks good just now nice water height. In saying that I guess it will be a bit busy at Cockers and the Goval after reports of a few fish taken this week.

I'm on Sluie tomorrow, so it will be another week or so before I venture to the ADAA waters

[macd]

tight lines the morn

i think you are right once the jungle drums get going parkhill will be busy. Might try maryculter if i get time.

[Sloggi]

To the original thread, I'd keep varying the depth, speed, and size options. If I knew there was a fish in the lie, and it was a known taking spot, I'd keep at it if possible.

Ross

Marculter was quiet yesterday - nothing about.

I've been to Kemnay a few times recently and have only see the occasional angler so I don't think it's being fished hard. There are still kelts at the Bridge. Water height and clarity should be fine. I'm going to the Manse Pool early tomorrow and then up to Kemnay.

[scottyboy9nro]

only one hing for it, get the prawn tied onnn

[colliedog]

Rennie,

It's an interesting dilemna - having seen a fish do you stick at it for a while or move on to fresh pastures - in the prime spring months (April and May) the fish are often on the move and that fish you see a couple of time may not be there for long. I'm a great believer in the more water covered, the more fish caught so try not to get bogged down covering the same fish for too long (I seem to blink long before the fish ever does).

However if I am concentrating on a short stretch of water (eg if it is my allocated pool) or beat) I tend to try and fish through it as many times as possible with a variety of flies of different sizes at different depths. I would rarely substitute a fly of the same size fished in the same way. In these situations, assuming a medium height of water, my approach is usually:
small fly (size 12-8) on floater (lots of mending)
larger fly (size 8-6 Ally's or Cascade) on sink tip (slowly worked in slacker water)
Collie or sunray - cast square and worked

CD

[paulsewin]

This is a very miscievous post Rennie. In one question you have opened a debate about every type of presentation and, indirectly, fly colour.

I'm very new to salmon fly fishing but I have spent a lot of time researching and trying out different options. In mainland UK, we tend to be very conservative in our approach to fishing. Much of what we do is dictated by what I'll call the "Scottish" approach.

I suggest that we take a look at what happens in Ireland and Scandinavia. Anglers in both these areas have tactics developed for what appear to be extreme versions of conditions we normally expect to encounter in Scotland.

The Irish shrimp fly is a good example. Before I go any further, there is a huge difference between a classic Irish Shrimp pattern and the numerous patterns originating in Scotland that are called "shrimp" flies. The one I'm referring to has a Red Golden Pheasant tail, wound as a hackle, another doubled hackle in the middle and finally a doubled hackle at the head.

Although they are often used in low, slow water by working the fly with the rod tip, they can be used in much faster flows if you change your line. The basic idea is to present the fish with an image that "pulses" in the water as it is fished across the river. The fly is usually cast squarely across the river and "tipped". The overall effect is that the fly fishes a little downstream, as well as across the fish.

Then we have the waking tube fly or hitched fly. Robert Gillespie, from the Moy, taught me how to fish this and the Irish shrimps. Robert was taught how to fish the waking tubes by David Henderson and Ian Gardiner from Coatbridge, Lanarkshire.

Next we look at the Scandinavian approach which was largely used in higher faster water than we would normally fly fish. I know this is a generalisation. The big thing is that they completely ignore the neat, traditional approach of either fishing the fly close to the surface or close to the river bed. They are quite prepared to fish the mid water as well. They are also prepared to get right down to the fish and almost intimidate them into taking the fly. The general approch seems much more aggressive and is largely based on the idea that the closer you put the fly to the fish, the easier it is for the fish to take and the more likely you are to get a reaction.

I would like to sound a word of caution here, just a salmon can be pushed out of taking lies by mindless, repetitive spinning, I imagine the same would happen if they were subjected to a similar barrage of templedogs, heavy tubes, etc.

A Sunray Shadow is almost a collie dog and we all know that this can work fished fast.

I think the answer to your question is that we need to have a full range of tactical options covering fly lines and styles of fly. (I'm not going to go anywhere near the option of changing the fly pattern, by that I mean selecting a green one instead of a blue one)

Then you need to know how to use these methods and finally, you need to actually think about it on the river. If one approach isn't working, try something else.

The type of water, temperature, weather and water conditions all have a part to play, but it is up to us to find the method for the moment. We are all guilty of complaining about so many things in salmon fishing that we can't control like the weather, river height, fish runs, etc but we are also guilty of not exploiting the things we can control. What we offer the fish and how we offer it are things that we can control.

Hope this adds to the debate

[rennie]

So the grey matters are all ticking over nicely,we have moved on from fly pattern and to a lessor extent colour and are thinking very actively about speed/presentation. Size of fly coupled with the speed it is fished gives us the option of "spinning" with the fly rod if needed.Whilst I agree with all Falkus published I do feel its not just top/bottom presentation the popularity of poly/multi-tip presentations are giving most anglers a mid water presentation,ideal for running fish,bang them square on the nose and a take is more likely than if the fish has to rise/fall in the water to have a chew.The old adage of fish not taking in strong sunshine straight down the pool in clear skies I think is rot,simply fish a sunk line and put your fly in front of the fish,bang on the nose it works very well indeed for me.Also if you are fishing the small fly and floater in rippled/popply water with a broken surface in my opinion the fish cant see your fly as it will be swimming in the turbulence,fish a polytip/sink tip/intermediate etc. so you put your fly into the fishes window of sight.You may well pick up on my belief that if a fish cant see your fly it cant take your fly,well you are right at least its a good start.Learning to tie your own flies and looking to gain the best semblance of life has to be worth a fish or two a year as most commercially tied jobs,well?
What sort of fish are you fishing over? fresh and running(larger flashy fly fished quick),darker and maybe resident(smaller darker fly fished slower and as careful as you can) the list is endless and so are the permutations of presentation.I always say to myself if something is worth thinking about its worth doing so I get on and do it.The thing that made the biggest difference to me were poly-tips,a full set resides in my wading jacket permanently and if I think a change is in order then I do it its easier than a second rod(which isn't always convenient or safe and is much more expensive)its highly possible I am more often than not fishing towards mid-water and in the warmer waters we seem to be getting these days in the late summer/autumn when fish are running far longer/further on the spates we do get that could be the medicine.
As Paulsewin says maybe theres more than one way to skin a cat and if I can ever catch Salmon like you can catch Sewin Paul I will be a few more steps up the Salmon fishing ladder.Cheers geezers and tight lines to all. Pedro.