Post by castlikeaghille on Apr 9, 2007 9:04:00 GMT
NB - This thread was written by PaulSewin - Not CLaG
As promised, this is the explanation about waking mini-tubes. This will be detailed and the details matter - I'm not typing this because I want the exercise.
This is my recollection of the method Robert Gillespie, Moy, showed me - any error or omission is my responsibility.
First let me tell you what this approach isn't.
It doesn't mean casting sort of downstream, J curve if you want, and allowing a tube fly with a hole drilled in one side to be towed across the surface by a decent current.
Neither is it about letting a fly fish so fast across a current that it looks like a little jet ski with a plume of water coming off the front of the fly.
Finally, it isn't about rapidly hand lining something across the surface to create a wake.
The method is flexible enough to do all the above but it's real value is fishing very slow moving water. Many Irish rivers are little more than canals for large stretches and yet the Irish anglers have developed various methods for extracting salmon on fly and other baits.
With the decreasing rainfall during the summers you might be well advised to go to Ireland to learn some of their tricks.
First the tackle.
Your normal rod, single or double hander of your choice and, of course, a floating line.
The flies, either specific waking tubes with holes in side 1/2 or 3/4 inch, (patterns? whatever pattern you like fishing with, there's a whole thread there) or normal mini tube flies without the hole, same size. (I actually carry both, see explanation later)
The cast, one fly on point, one on dropper, about 10-12 foot cast. If you are using 'Holed' tubes, these will always create a wake along as you are sensible with the hook size.
Normal tubes flies - you will save yourselves a whole lot of grief if you remember these.
1. USE NYLON, not fluorocarbon. For some reason, every fluorocarbon I've tried drowns the tubes and I can't get them to wake at all.
2. Use two flies, you can get one fly to wake but it's easier with two.
3. Use Partridge XB3L outpoint trebles, 14 for the 1/2", 12 for the 3/4".
4. If they don't wake, retie the flies, BOTH OF THEM. I know it doesn't make any sense at all and I didn't believe it made any difference. 1 hour later, wasted fishing time, increased frustration, I finally used the solution I'd been given and, of course, they worked.
For all the above you can make your own mistakes, or learn from mine. How much time can you afford to waste?
The Method
This works in all speeds of current but is the only method I know that works in slow current.
Typical pool set up, left hand bank, sloping gravel into defined current, bit of depth and slacker water on right bank, a few rocks, boils and other features, just to make it ideal, we'll even have some fish in it.
Remember it is low & slow. Cast square, you should still have enough line in your hand to allow you to lift the rod almost vertically - 11.30ish. Trap the line on your upper hand with your forefinger and get hold of the running line with your left hand.
WAIT, and possibly WAIT some more. This can be very slow to start with. What are you waiting for? You are waiting for what current there is out there to tension your fly line -enough to bring the tube flies up onto the surface.
There are some subtleties here. I usually wait for the belly to tension (that's one reason for the vertical rod tip, to maximise the amount of line on the water). If nothing happens, I will draw some line in until the flies "pop" onto the surface.
Once the flies are up there, you need to keep them there, you need to fish them while they're there and finally you have to hook the fish.
There's a lot for you to do.
Keeping the flies on the surface - gentle hand lining to speed them up, raising or lowering the rod tip as well.
Fly speed - the flies will fish at two speeds, dead slow and jet ski. You've guessed it, the one we want is dead slow. Lower the rod to take some of the tension out of the system.
You will have to commit yourself to playing with this and fitting it to your water. You will need to experiment.
Fishing the flies. Once they're on the surface and you are controlling their speed you still have the option of using any of the normal presentation methods e.g. getting the flies to hang over lies, drop back, etc
Hooking the fish - I've had absolutely no success to date with this method but I have only had 3 follows. I've only used this method about 12 times in 4 years.
Robert tells me he used to miss 7 out of 10 rises to the waking tube fly by waiting for the fish to turn on the fly. However, he has now increased his success rate to 9 out of 10 by "feeding" the fly to the fish. Basically, once you know that the fly is being followed, all you do is lower the rod tip, the slack line "stops" the tubes on the surface of the water.
(I don't know why a fish that's made all this effort to come to the surface won't take unless you feed the fly to it, but it does beg an interesting question. How often is this happening sub-surface, how can we detect it and if we can, will this method work? - another thread perhaps)
Hooking the fish - you may all have your own preferred methods but you may just want to consider this approach. This method is so visual and the salmon behaviour could be so explosive that any method that involves real angler input is likely to result in lost fish.
Your rod tip will be pretty near vertical to start with, as the fish approaches you will drop the tip slightly to "feed" the fly to the fish. Your forefinger on your top hand has already locked the line tight. As the fish takes, just let it drag the rod tip down to the water. In other words, don't do anything until it's too late for you to mess it up.
Why do I use both types of tubes?
1. I use mini tubes a lot. If I forget the waking tubes I will be forced to use ordinary ones.
2. The purist in me likes to do it properly, without cheating, sad but true.
3. There is one direction of presentation for which the normal tube is vital and that is upstream.
This has been a huge post already - upstream will follow, but only if you want it.
Paul Sewin
As promised, this is the explanation about waking mini-tubes. This will be detailed and the details matter - I'm not typing this because I want the exercise.
This is my recollection of the method Robert Gillespie, Moy, showed me - any error or omission is my responsibility.
First let me tell you what this approach isn't.
It doesn't mean casting sort of downstream, J curve if you want, and allowing a tube fly with a hole drilled in one side to be towed across the surface by a decent current.
Neither is it about letting a fly fish so fast across a current that it looks like a little jet ski with a plume of water coming off the front of the fly.
Finally, it isn't about rapidly hand lining something across the surface to create a wake.
The method is flexible enough to do all the above but it's real value is fishing very slow moving water. Many Irish rivers are little more than canals for large stretches and yet the Irish anglers have developed various methods for extracting salmon on fly and other baits.
With the decreasing rainfall during the summers you might be well advised to go to Ireland to learn some of their tricks.
First the tackle.
Your normal rod, single or double hander of your choice and, of course, a floating line.
The flies, either specific waking tubes with holes in side 1/2 or 3/4 inch, (patterns? whatever pattern you like fishing with, there's a whole thread there) or normal mini tube flies without the hole, same size. (I actually carry both, see explanation later)
The cast, one fly on point, one on dropper, about 10-12 foot cast. If you are using 'Holed' tubes, these will always create a wake along as you are sensible with the hook size.
Normal tubes flies - you will save yourselves a whole lot of grief if you remember these.
1. USE NYLON, not fluorocarbon. For some reason, every fluorocarbon I've tried drowns the tubes and I can't get them to wake at all.
2. Use two flies, you can get one fly to wake but it's easier with two.
3. Use Partridge XB3L outpoint trebles, 14 for the 1/2", 12 for the 3/4".
4. If they don't wake, retie the flies, BOTH OF THEM. I know it doesn't make any sense at all and I didn't believe it made any difference. 1 hour later, wasted fishing time, increased frustration, I finally used the solution I'd been given and, of course, they worked.
For all the above you can make your own mistakes, or learn from mine. How much time can you afford to waste?
The Method
This works in all speeds of current but is the only method I know that works in slow current.
Typical pool set up, left hand bank, sloping gravel into defined current, bit of depth and slacker water on right bank, a few rocks, boils and other features, just to make it ideal, we'll even have some fish in it.
Remember it is low & slow. Cast square, you should still have enough line in your hand to allow you to lift the rod almost vertically - 11.30ish. Trap the line on your upper hand with your forefinger and get hold of the running line with your left hand.
WAIT, and possibly WAIT some more. This can be very slow to start with. What are you waiting for? You are waiting for what current there is out there to tension your fly line -enough to bring the tube flies up onto the surface.
There are some subtleties here. I usually wait for the belly to tension (that's one reason for the vertical rod tip, to maximise the amount of line on the water). If nothing happens, I will draw some line in until the flies "pop" onto the surface.
Once the flies are up there, you need to keep them there, you need to fish them while they're there and finally you have to hook the fish.
There's a lot for you to do.
Keeping the flies on the surface - gentle hand lining to speed them up, raising or lowering the rod tip as well.
Fly speed - the flies will fish at two speeds, dead slow and jet ski. You've guessed it, the one we want is dead slow. Lower the rod to take some of the tension out of the system.
You will have to commit yourself to playing with this and fitting it to your water. You will need to experiment.
Fishing the flies. Once they're on the surface and you are controlling their speed you still have the option of using any of the normal presentation methods e.g. getting the flies to hang over lies, drop back, etc
Hooking the fish - I've had absolutely no success to date with this method but I have only had 3 follows. I've only used this method about 12 times in 4 years.
Robert tells me he used to miss 7 out of 10 rises to the waking tube fly by waiting for the fish to turn on the fly. However, he has now increased his success rate to 9 out of 10 by "feeding" the fly to the fish. Basically, once you know that the fly is being followed, all you do is lower the rod tip, the slack line "stops" the tubes on the surface of the water.
(I don't know why a fish that's made all this effort to come to the surface won't take unless you feed the fly to it, but it does beg an interesting question. How often is this happening sub-surface, how can we detect it and if we can, will this method work? - another thread perhaps)
Hooking the fish - you may all have your own preferred methods but you may just want to consider this approach. This method is so visual and the salmon behaviour could be so explosive that any method that involves real angler input is likely to result in lost fish.
Your rod tip will be pretty near vertical to start with, as the fish approaches you will drop the tip slightly to "feed" the fly to the fish. Your forefinger on your top hand has already locked the line tight. As the fish takes, just let it drag the rod tip down to the water. In other words, don't do anything until it's too late for you to mess it up.
Why do I use both types of tubes?
1. I use mini tubes a lot. If I forget the waking tubes I will be forced to use ordinary ones.
2. The purist in me likes to do it properly, without cheating, sad but true.
3. There is one direction of presentation for which the normal tube is vital and that is upstream.
This has been a huge post already - upstream will follow, but only if you want it.
Paul Sewin
