Propinquity.....

[splash]

Although there have been a recent thread and many individual posts on the subject of forum moderation, they seem to have had little effect on forum governance. The recent post on Tay salmon fishing joins the thread on Kercock and the great salmon writers as essentially written off because of abusive or inflammatory remarks from one member (often sadly in the case of our forum from one of the moderators) to another.

For people to contribute substantive posts to,after all, what is an entirely voluntary forum, the governance processes associated with such a forum must go some way to ensure that any responses are conducted in an even handed and fair mannered way. That there should be occasional banter adds to the informality of the forum and should continue, but for individuals to conduct any discourse in an insulting or derogatory manner must be actively controlled by the moderators

In such a forum, propinquity is the key; members must be encouraged to post , even if they know that other forum members may disagree strongly with their views. To paraphrase Voltaire "I may disagree with what you say but I defend to the death your right to say it"

Its also noticeable that the number of substantive pieces on salmon fishing have diminished over the last few weeks and the hottest posts have often been those posted in the Lounge with great discussions plus lots of fantastic banter around music and films has taken place. Do people feel more comfortable in expressing themselves more on these informal subjects?

So moderators, the challenge to you is run these forums, in a way that people feel encouraged to post, police the bad behaviour, encourage the good natured banter, make new members welcome and lets get engaged in some more great debates.

If you don't have propinquity, you get the neighbour from Hell and we all want to avoid that each time we want to post on a potentially controversial subject

cheers

Splash

[windcutter]

I endorse the foregoing sentiment wholeheartedly.
Let's exchange information and learn.There is no need to trade insults.

[macd]

'Splash - ahh, ahh-aahh......savedeveryoneofus....'

sorry....long week

well said splash.

R

[pertempledog]

Springer - you're a salmon fisher for goodness sake, you know to never give up!

P.A.T.

[Sloggi]

I've been feeling pretty positvie about the Forum in recent weeks

The longer threads on general tactics have been most absorbing. The fly tying section has provided good new stuff for example, the threads on snake flies and proportions. The fly-swap is well underway - looking forward to getting mine I've had the feeling new members have been contributing especially in tackle talk and general. The banter has been fine - I've not noticed the aggression in posts that was becoming the norm.

Some of the lounge's threads have been good - perhaps it's common-ground with all the new, and very welcome, members.

The situation with Colin etc is as it is - he's not around very often so let's leave it at that. I feel we can self-regulate together with the Moderators.

I also feel we've all been out fishing hence the sense that the forum is meandering along - that is surely a good sign at this time of the year Imagine how cranky we'd all be if it was the close season

[madkeen]

Sloggi unlike you I have not been too positive about the forum recently.I log in most days and I think the content of the forum is waining which may be down to everyone fishing.I have noticed that regular posters have not posted for a while now, even for advice in the tackle department people that were there with advice don't seem to be offering much.I don't think we can blame WG for the downturn in the forum you either get his humour or you don't.As in life I think it's best to look at things with an element of humour.

[hornet]

As a newish member i got caught up in a thread and as previously mentioned i cringed at what went on.

I have let say learned that it is a forum where different walks of people discuss, exchange views, tackle and have opinions. I now keep all negative comments/views to myself and only add which i think are good or constructive.

I do not have an issue with anyone as it is water under the bridge and all i want is to join in, read, view and communicate where i feel i can.

I totally agree with Splash and Sloggi and think we should carry on with the forum as it has too much to offer.

Hornet

[tynetraveller]

I agree, If everyone just bit their tongue (or should it be broke their own fingers- on a web forum?) and did not post negatives then the forum would be great and people interested in salmon fishing wouldn't have to read yet another of these painful, go nowhere threads about forum moderation

[ibrox]

I am all for a bit of friendly banter but when personal insults get chucked about and someone takes offence thats when it should be stopped and until someone steps in to do this I can't see a way forward for this forum. Its a great shame as there are some very interesting people from all walks of life on here and a lot of very good advice and its quite a good laugh at times. I have a lot of sympathy for Springer, as he has put a lot into this forum, as well as other members.

This is the third time someone has tried to sort this out, so I don't hold out much hope. Fingers crossed third time lucky.

I'm sorry if I ruffle people's feathers sometimes but I say it as I see it.

Mike

[hornet]

Mike,

I hear what you are saying and to some extent agree with you, but i feel we have to look through the negatives and continue on the positives.

Like you say there is good blokes on here who wish to contribute and i say continue. There will always be cases where people disagree no matter what. The real crux is the level of insult or slagging that will be allowed / tolerated by this forum.

So it's crossroad time, let's either discuss or vote in how to go forward before people do decide to jack it or hunt the thingys down.

PS, cheer up there is always next season to be trophy-less again.

Hornet

[ibrox]

I hope things get better my friend

And by the way you aint gonna win f . . .all next season you cheeky bugger ;D ;D

[splash]

springer said:

Splash,

I agree with your sentiments but sadly have no hope that anything will come of this thread

We have been drifting aimlessly for a long time now. The knee jerk decision to appoint additional moderators by Colin was a poorly thought out one.

Colin the guy who started this site and who holds ultimate control of how it runs hasn't logged on since 2nd April.

Ship without a rudder springs to mind.

Ive tried to shake this site up in the past but without success and sadly have little hope that it will change direction now.

Springer as PAT says don't be too despondent. My original plea while calling for better forum governance also was making the point that a lot can be acheived via self regulation, ie members ensuring that there comments are not derisory or inflammatory in nature. God forbid should we lose plain speaking, banter and good natured leg pulling, but its comments which either question a persons credibility or deride their opinion that we should be seeking to exorcise. A couple of people have PM'd me with these sentiments in the past month or so and this really provided the genesis for the thread. Anyone who works in a business environment knows that customer focus and relationships are key. My point was really simple; lets not disenfranchise someone who wants to contribute becaue they feel they will either get a humiliating put down from a moderator or a fellow forum member calling them an ass**le for expressing their point of view. Plenty oher fishing forums out there guys......

[greenbanks]

My point was really simple; lets not disenfranchise someone who wants to contribute becaue they feel they will either get a humiliating put down from a moderator or a fellow forum member calling them an ass**le for expressing their point of view. Plenty oher fishing forums out there guys...... [/quote]

Hey Splash what forums do you like?
There's way too much page rage on this one

[splash]

greenbanks said:

My point was really simple; lets not disenfranchise someone who wants to contribute becaue they feel they will either get a humiliating put down from a moderator or a fellow forum member calling them an ass**le for expressing their point of view. Plenty oher fishing forums out there guys......

Hey Splash what forums do you like?
There's way too much page rage on this one [/quote]

SPK to be honest, I really like this one because its the closest to the majority of fishing that I like to do. Spey pages is to anoraky and self congratulatory in its tone and the posters seem to treat the moderators as deities The Scottish trout fishing ones seem to be really aggressive, particularly when it comes to issues around SANA and competition fishing - oh that'll be a surprise to everyone then ! The US saltwater forums are good for contacts and tackle tips etc but I actually personally spend by far the most time on this one. The point I was trying to get across though was that while some of us are confident enough to address conflict and state our points of view, there are some members and new members in particular, who may feel discouraged to post if they feel that they are subject to put downs or open to ridicule and that can't be good if we want to solicit wider participation and new members. Evolution was never enhanced by a shallow gene pool....