Scotland's most abused river? - The Garry

[castlikeaghille]

springer said:

castlikeaghille said:

Ok folks, a meeting with Pete Wishart MP for Perth has been set up for Friday afternoon on Tayside. After chat it has been agreed that this will be a small representative group on this occassion rather than a full Town Hall affair. So far we have invited, and have had accepted angling press, gillies and TSFB.

Am now looking for one or two people to represent paying anglers/local economic interest. If you would like to go and support this, please send me a PM. It would be helpful to know what your take on the situation is and why it is important to support such schemes.

Regards

CLaG

How did you get o with your meeting CLaG?

Were you able to make any progress during your meeting with Mr Wishart?

I thought someone had posted feedback? I couldn't go because I had to attend a changed completion meeting. However, a good representative mix of people did go including Willie The Ghillie. I spoke to three people afterwards. Now I could post what they said to me, however, then I'd be reporting back what people who were actually there said. As you know I'm not to be believed a word in these situations

Therefore, WTG, if you see this and have a spare minute perhaps you might be kind enough to post a line or two of feedback

Regards

CLaG

[castlikeaghille]

Here is some feedback from David Summers:

Just an update as to where we are on the Garry so you can paste it up on the Forum if you want.

Latest news is pasted on our website

www.tdsfb.org/RiverGarryReport.htm

We’ve started a petition and forms can be downloaded from that address. We are also looking at setting up an epetition.

As regards the meeting with Pete, it was really encouraging and he really seems to want to help. He has written a very helpful column in the Perthshire Advertiser basically asking for a positive debate on this subject. His own words on the subject are found in the following article in the Comment online.

www.commentonline.co.uk/wildlife/MPInvestigatesRiverGarryWaterIssue.htm

At the moment things are moving on apace on a number of fronts, of which I hope to say more later in the week. In the meantime the more people who hear the message and sign the petition the better!


Best wishes


David

[victorclem]

I thought all you Tay fishermen out there would be wanting to keep this near the top of the forum. There have been very few fish in the system this year, this proposal could have a big impact on things if it is played correctly.

So, go on, make a comment, start an argument, it does'nt take very long, you know others will reply, and you might just do some good.

[sagecaster]

I pass the Garry regularly and have always wondered how far up the river the fish currently get and do they ever get stranded high and dry after a spate? The river disappears so quickly you would expect to see a few left behind.

[williegunn]

victorclem said:

I thought all you Tay fishermen out there would be wanting to keep this near the top of the forum.

I have pinned it for you, would this help?

[dunbar]

Dr Summers and colleagues pulled off something of a coup a few weeks ago by purchasing shares in Scottish & Southern Energy thus enabling himself to attend their AGM which was conveniently for the Tay Board, and somewhat unluckily for SSE, held in Perth.

Cue a demonstration with a T shirt-clad Dr and colleagues leafleting outside the AGM venue;

Cue looks of nervous concern from the suits indoors and 200 or so shareholders therein;

Cue the alarm when the the shirt & ties were put on by the Dr and they entered the AGM;

Cue rather more frantic suits asking what was going on;

Cue the Dr registering to ask the Board a question concerning the dried up Garry;

Cue bewildered and interested Board and shareholders;

Result.

[victorclem]

Only a result when the water that is deemed necessary is released, and sustained over a period of time. DS and friends certainly took their opportunity well though.

Yes, pinning this at the top of your forum is an exellent idea. I think this topic should be kept to the forefront right through to the autumn and beyond.

VC

[Willie The Gillie]

The whole things a highly disturbing national catastrophic & ecological disaster.
Build 78 dams in Scotland give the chief engineer involved in the Tummel's destruction a knighthood then bum on about 'fish friendly tubine blades' and how the 500,000 visitors who annually visit Pitlochry are there to see the beautiful dam!!!!! . Meanwhile post absurd annual profits but when it comes to the Garry they don't want to lose a single kilowatt even in the face of new European law !!! The Hydro companies have totally defaced Scotland and played a major role in the demise of many a great Scottish salmon river. And as for their 'Power from the Glens' brochure would it not be more aptly titled ' Unemployment from the Glens' !!!!!!!!!!

[scottrod]

Thats very true Jock you have hit the nail right on the head there !!!!!

[Willie The Gillie]

Salmon aside for a minute here - if I was a tourist visiting Scotland I wouldn't be too happy if what I was looking for was Scotland's natural highland glens and flowing rivers. There's almost a case here against the tourist board for misrepresentation as Scotland for a long time now has not really been the Scotland people imagine. Between the quests for kilowatts and cheap timber through thoughtless conifer commercial forestation we have caused serious damage to the ecology of our rivers & glens. Surely the real value of our nation lies in the natural and unrivalled beauty of the landscapes and not from the whine of a turbine or the dark shadow cast over our magnificant hillsides with commercial coniferous weeds.
The Garry fight is a very worthwhile fight but only the start of an extremely long process. There will be none of us around when the last (or possibly the first) concrete monstrosity is removed from the glens but as technology advances the final outcome for Scotland HAS TO BE the restoration of our glens by getting rid of these concrete invaders.

[bagoworms]

WTG,

We'll never probably live to see the positive change, but I believe it will come since nature has a way of findig her own balance. Mankind is basically stupid but nature is not - after all she's been around for a long time. Our particular problem at the moment is our belief that we can somehow control her - try telling that to the poor folks who have been flooded out more than once in the past few years!

I made a brief acquaintance with a fish yesterday that came from a lineage that extends back to the last ice age, they've been doing the same thing since time began, more or less. Could the fish say the same of us?

It didnae even have a mobile...

[victorclem]

Bagowrms,

"We'll never probably live to see the positive change"

I thought that fishermen were eternal optimists. We need to be much more positive than this.

By the way, it was Irishmen that built them dams and they wont be crumbling down any time soon, so forget about mother nature resolving this one on her own........

VC

[kercock]

Most of the commercial forestry is now at an age and height to be "cropped". No pulp mills. What will they do with them?? Build a log burning power source perhaps ??

[victorclem]

Kercock,

Most of the forestry is now old enough to produce a decent % of sawlogs which are much more valuable than pulp. The main issue in dealing with forestry is if the infrastrcuture in terms of roads/ bridges etc are of good enough quality to take modern timber traffic.

And yes, use of timber as a woodfuel is taking off, and that will produce markets for small diameter timber that would have otherwise just have been "pulp"..........

By the way, very little in the way of commercial timber problems in the garry catchment, you-know-what is the big issue there by miles................

VC

[springrunner]

I believe that "Willie the Gillie" nearly hit the nail on the head with his comments on the Garry.

The destruction of our beautiful Scottish rivers and glens has been going on now for a very long time - sixty years at least.
The Hydro dams of the fifties flooded the glens relieving the inhabitants of their homes and livelihoods - a 20th century Highland clearance.
River systems were spoilt, deer habitation destroyed.
The natural scenery scarred forever with these man-made dams and lochs.

Before the onset of these Hydro schemes - the rainfall seaped slowly down through the peat lined hills to the valley below in a naturally controlled fashion. By flooding the valley they have removed nature's water retainer. The result has been flooding.
Consequently the hills no longer retain ice and snow in winter to feed the rivers below when spring arrives - another contributary factor in global warming.

The Hydro Dams were not the only villians here - the Forestry Commission must also take their fair share of the blame. They, in their infinite wisdom, ploughed hundreds of square miles of scottish hillsides and large areas of flow country. They planted trees that were lucky to survive - if they did - they went for pulping! No value there then. All our construction timber is imported.

The next perpetrators are the Windfarms!
The general public are being conned into thinking that these monsters are friendly to the environment. And windpower is free!
They hide the information of their gigantic construction and the damaging motorway standard road infrastructure that is required for their building and continued maintenance.
They have found another effective drainage system for our country.
I will not bore you with the details of the machinery involved but it is frightening.

Add to the equation, phone masts, tracks and roads made by estate 4 x4's and intrepid walkers with the right to roam. AND the draining gets better!

The sad facts are - that, with all these listed above, we are contributing to the inevitable.
Perth, Inverness and many more towns and villages will - all be flooded!
It's just a matter of time.

[springrunner]

I forgot to add the point that - whilst we try to salve our consciences by thinking "Green" we actually supplement our national electricity supply from our nuclear friendly neighbour, France.

This whole subject of this continued abuse is huge and complex - the Garry is just a another ( to the majority of the population of our fine nation )- an insignificant casualty.

It is important therefore to raise the standard of awareness where and when ever one can.

[victorclem]

TDSFB have just put up a forum poll on their website to gather more support, but only three votes to date. Might be an idea for a few people to post some votes as there has not been a great strike rate to date. The link is on their home page.

VC

[williegunn]

www.tdsfb.org/forum/index.php?topic=2.0

Is the link you need.

[sinkingtip]

Anyone see the article in yesterdays Dundee Courier (4th Sept) quoting ex TDSFB superintendant Garrod Gibb's views on the Garry situation and the decline in Tay stocks generally ?? Interesting reading but more than a tad pessimistic IMO. Might be available to view on-line.
Regards
STip

[Willie The Gillie]

I've just read it . What a load of utter pish !!!!!
Here's a guy who was in a great position to influence change for 35 years but failed. So what this guy is really saying is that the Garry fight and any other projects on the Tay are a waste of time !!!!!!!!! Imagine even saying that survey info from 15 years ago !!!! is available in the archives. (How dare he even suggest for a second that they have (15 year old ) survey info on the headwaters as extensively & professionally gathered as Victor and his team at SNW's are currently doing so on a catchment wide basis).
The proof is all around in other Scottish salmon rivers that many techniques & policies in restoring salmon stocks in rivers do work.
These unproductive and bitter old dinosaurs would be better placed at the bottom of the river. Furthermore the guy who aired this rubbish is the current holder of the Tay Habitat Award Trophy !!!!!!!!!!!
Whether the Garry fight is won lost or drawn and whether the TWCP final outcome is a huge success or not, under NO ACCOUNT will any of us lose sight of these objectives. In fact this sort of crap only fuels all of us on further.
Jock