Scotland's most abused river? - The Garry

[Speyducer]

williethegillie said:

I've just read it . What a load of utter pish !!!!!
Here's a guy who was in a position to influence change but failed. So what this guy is really saying is that the Garry fight and any other projects on the Tay are a waste of time !!!!!!!!! Imagine even saying that survey info from 15 years ago !!!! is available in the archives.
Typical of someone who has their eyes shut which is sadly true of many who are currently or have been previously in charge of managing Scottish salmon rivers.
The proof is all around in other Scottish salmon rivers that technques & policies in restoring salmon stocks rivers do work.
These unproductive and bitter old dinosaurs would be better placed at the bottom of the river. Furthermore the guy who aired this rubbish is the current holder of the TDSFB Habitat Award Trophy !!!!!!!!!!!
Jock

Anyone or group genuinely interested in the welfare of the river, the water flowing down it, the general environs of the banks and the land that drains into that river, the river ecology, the redds, the stocks of immature to adult fish would be surveying every year. By that I DON'T mean the self-regulated and usually under-reported kill-rate for angler caught fish after the fact.

The 'me - now' factor may have something to do with it.

I have seen this on Irish rivers, where it is EXPECTED that you return from your day's fishing having killed everything so that it can be paraded with everyone else's glazed eyed, dull-flanked bonked fish for a group-kill photo opporchancity in the mistaken belief that this is the correct way forward to promote that particular establishment's rod-day sales for the next season.

Genuine accurate scientific studies and surveys of the fish stocks from eggs to MSW fish, and their entire river environment is essential before anyone can be batting around policies varying from 'all fish to be returned before X date' through to full & complete C&R only.

It is in the interests of everyone from the newbie young angler through proficient salmon catchers, riparian owners, and even to the government to have accurate and real statistics on the health of a watershed so that sensible policies can be put in place to restore, the maintain healthy fish stocks.

The economic arguments of the benefit of good fish stocks translating into big boosts to the local Scottish economy and beyond are not really disputed.

Unfortunately, it appears that those whose JOB it is to make the policy decisions and ensure that all comply seem to act like 'sometime, maybe next year' will do.

If action isn't taken soon, then there will be no fish stocks to make decisions about.

Mike

[juststartedagain]

What were the keywords in the headline, I can't find the article online?

Sounds like a well worded rebuttal is needed!

Here is a related article which means nothing if there are no fish left in one of the main rivers!! How strong an influence/voice do VisitScotland have??

www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2007/05/08/newsstory9679516t0.asp

The River Garry issue aside (see other link) sounds like John Swinney & SNP need to excert some influence in relevant areas. Losing salmon fishing to the Scottish economy is not good news for any of us and not from just a fishing perspective.

www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2007/07/06/newsstory9957513t0.asp

"Outdoor pursuits" particularly fishing & shooting related bring in massive amounts to the Scottish economy - realistically must be in the £1Bn++ range if you look at all the subsiduary areas. The Scottish economy cannot afford to lose this type of income into its coffers!
I just cannot comprehend the attitudes of the TDSFB and some of the Riparian owners - no fish means nothing to own or manage!! Roll on the AGM and some changes!!

Jock - Sounds like this guy is a candidate for another award - official anchor for the first journey of the "Tay Floating Bouncy Castle"! ;D

[victorclem]

Mike is exactly right. According to FishTay, with only seven weeks left to go, the 2007 Tay catch is only standing at 40% of the five-year average. That is a big gap to close, and it will be a long, long winter if people cannot see some sort of strategy in place for dealing with this situation. Whether TDSFB are right or wrong in their approach to the Garry, the Dundee Courier were wrong to undermine them by printing this story.

VC

[victorclem]

I have a scanned copy if anyone wants to see it, send me your e-mail address in a pm.

I have sent it to you juststartedagain.

VC

[juststartedagain]

Victor,

that's why a rebuttal is needed highlighting the positive work that is going on i.e. TWCP, the approach and what the benefits will be if - and not just to the fishing..

[victorclem]

I have sent this letter to Dundee Courier by e-mail just now. Fingers crossed.
(Speyducer, I stole a few lines from your post, you were more articulate on one point than I could be.)

Dundee Courier Letter Text
Many people will be concerned by your article “Fisheries veteran fears for Garry”, (Sept 4th) in which an ex-Tay District Salmon Fisheries Board employee denigrates current efforts to put extra water back in to the river Garry and also appears to be extremely cynical about wider efforts to improve the riparian habitat of the Tay system. While it is undeniably true that salmon fishing on the Tay has been in decline for some time, the tone of this article is all wrong. Fishing on Tayside, be it for salmon or freshwater species, contributes massively to the local economy. Fishermen will keep coming back, even in poor times, if they can see that efforts are being made to improve the situation. Restoring a better flow to the River Garry will be an essential part of any package of measures that are put in place to deal with the current situation. Whether TDSFB have been right or wrong in their current strategy, this article has effectively undermined their campaign, and is to be deplored for doing so.

Regarding the cynicism towards surveys and collection of other essential information connected to the river, it is in the interests of everyone from young anglers, proficient salmon catchers, riparian owners, and even the government to have accurate and real statistics on the health of a watershed so that sensible policies can be put in place to restore and maintain healthy fish stocks and other associated wildlife and habitats. This is never time wasted.

The Tay currently needs people looking forward, not looking back. I am sorry, but this article is not helping anyone.

Yours,

Victor Clements
Scottish Native Woods
1 Crieff Road
Aberfeldy
PH15 2BJ

Tel: [phone]

[sinkingtip]

Well done VC and Speyducer. !! Well worded. It would be extremely interesting to hear the personal viewpoint of the journalist who facilitated this 'story' whom I believe is a Tay angler himself and the current holder of the "Tay Habitat Award Trophy" (as WTG quite rightly points out).

DC Thompson (the publishers) at their finest !!!

[Speyducer]

Thanks, Victor, on all our behalfs (?sp) for emailing the Courier.

We will await an response.

Mike

[juststartedagain]

Nice one Victor..as Mike says interesting to see the response.

thanks

[Willie The Gillie]

Well done VC but like most of them they'll not even show the courtesy of a response. Anyway here's a guy who's light has only just gone on after 35 years of being in the hot seat and clearly made ZERO impact although freely admitting he watched the decline !!!
It's obvious that with everything thats been in the papers about the Garry and the TWCP he's probably feeling like a totally useless c---t for not having properly attempted anything close to any of this current action while he had the chance. (Nae baws).
Regards
Jock

[Speyducer]

williethegillie said:

Well done VC but like most of them they'll not even show the courtesy of a response. Anyway here's a guy who's light has only just gone on after 35 years of being in the hot seat and clearly made ZERO impact although freely admitting he watched the decline !!!
It's obvious that with everything thats been in the papers about the Garry and the TWCP he's probably feeling like a totally useless c---t for not having properly attempted anything close to any of this current action while he had the chance. (Nae baws).
Regards
Jock

Jock,

just come out with it, nae dithering, say whit ya mean, nae beating aboot the bush. ;D ;D

M

[Willie The Gillie]

M
There's no time left on the Tay for anything but the 'call it as it is approach'. Even though I know I can get a bit carried away from time to time.
That probably is heightened by watching a once bouncing but currently dead river Tay from day to day and seeing the disappointed guests after fishing hard for a day (days) without so much as a tug.
The thing that we aren't lacking on the Tay is blethereing old cynical types who know 10% of the inside of a donut about salmon regeneration techniques sniping at a distance when they see action from straight thinking get up and go merchants who are attempting to deliver big salmon numbers back on the Tay through techniques already proven on other rivers.
Regards
JM

[hornet]

Jock,

I can't really comment on the geezer as i don't know him.

However from what a good mate has told me of him it is really disappointing that this interview was allowed to take place never mind allowing it to get published.

I'm all for your drive and goal to get the Tay back on it's feet as i have only ever seen it in this condition and not in the good old days as the say.

Everyone of us who are Salmon fishers support the actions to get the Hydro Board hammered for destroying the River Garry and i for one have signed the petition last week when attending the Glamis fair.

VC is doing a tremendous job and hopefully everyone on this board supports him.

It is now up to the people who make the decisions to make the right ones and save the Tay and restore the Garry before it is too LATE.

Hornet

[victorclem]

Dear all,

This is the text of a letter that appeared in Courier today, Fri 7th Sept. I have copied it EXACTLY as it is. As you can see, it is very blunt and to the point. Much more personal than I would have put it, but there you are. I assume that my own letter will then almost certainly not be printed, but this one makes the point we would all like to get across:

HYPOCRITICAL TO CRITICIZE

Sir,
I feel a response is required to your article Fishing Veteran fears for the Garry. How hypocritical for Mr Gibb to be criticizing atempts to improve salmon numbers in the Garry and Tay systems.
I am unaware of any great effort on the part of Mr Gibb to rectify the declining stocks in his time as superintendant of the Fisheries Board. Perhaps the reverse.
This is the same Garrod Gibb who a number of years ago said he had witnessed "anglers" at Moncrieffe Island foul-hook over 60 salmon in one day, and, whilst having the power of arrest, did not intervene. (hardly conservation-minded!)
Perhaps Mr Gibb is suffering from some sort of belated envy or sour grapes at the progress of the Garry appeal.
The Tay Board, with present incumbent Dr Summers and his team, are currently doing their best to improve a very difficult situation.
I, for one, wish them well.

Dougie Robb
127 Craigie Road
Perth

VC

[robbie]

It may be useful if that letter gets a response from Mr Gibb. Tt will possibly allow further correspondence from VC and others from the cause and offer the opportunity to raise awareness and discredit this dinosaur. My admiration and hat is off to you all for your fighting spirit. Thank you.

[victorclem]

Dundee Courier printed my letter today after all, exactly as submitted and printed above. Fair play to them, that they will allow criticism of their own articles.

Now, having defended TDSFB in local paper and feeling overwhelmed by moral superiority, I feel I can risk a few words of criticism in their direction, for the more discerning readers on this forum.

Why is it that after 6 days that TDSFB have not seen fit to defend themselves on this matter? Is communications/ public relations not a priority for them?

Discuss.

VC

[robbie]

Hey hey,
Result. Let us know of any responses, A bit of fun - could of ended your letter by saying that Mr Dinosaur may wish to contribute to the fighting fund.

[Willie The Gillie]

He and some of the other old cynics of the Tay valley backseat drivers society would vomit before parting with cash for worthwhile projects like TWCP. I know as I've been out picking up donations and it amazes me that most of the miserable old brigade (with plenty doe) who collectively chapped thousands of big Tay salmon through the 60's 70's & 80's boke at the concept of putting a little back into the Tay's future. This valley is riddled with these twits sadly which is why we have the shatterered remains of a once famous salmon river as our starting point today.
Jock

[rpsalmon]

Irrespective of the River system, or whether it is Scotland, England or Wales, it is the wealthy landowners and wealthy "users" of the river who are strangely invisible when even modest amounts of money are required to change things around.

The hint of a list of contributors being released, often described as a unofficial "naming and shaming list", can do wonders if properly managed and targeted.

[victorclem]

rpsalmon,

All those contributing to our own project will be fully acknowledged in our final 1000-mile survey report, which will be widely distributed to everyone who wants a copy, no matter how large or small their donation. I am happy to say that ghillies and fishermen of modest means have been showing up well, as well as local hotels/ fishing tackle shops. We have some bigger donations as well though.

If anyone wants to make a donation to WCP, or learn a bit more about it, have a look at:

www.scottishnativewoods.org.uk/index.asp?lm=60

VC