Polyleaders/Sinkers/Floaters etc.

[robbie]

Advice please. In what scenarios do people employ the varying combinations available of for example, Floating line/Poly leaders instead of a Sink tip or vice versa. Intermediate/leader instead of full sinker and so on. Are the differences subtle? is it a casting or presentation thing?

[castlikeaghille]

robbie said:

Advice please. In what scenarios do people employ the varying combinations available of for example, Floating line/Poly leaders instead of a Sink tip or vice versa. Intermediate/leader instead of full sinker and so on. Are the differences subtle? is it a casting or presentation thing?

This response only covers your last line. The problem with any poly leader is that it is attached to a full line usually with very bad hinging if the line loop is in any way flexible. That full line is designed and profiled to be balanced to its tip to provide a properly turning over loop. So the moment you add anything more than a couple of feet of polyleader to your line you will have thrown it completely out of balance. This will have two effects:

1) It will reduce the distances, especially with spey casting where line balance is more critical than agricultural overhead casting, you can consistently manage; and, worse

2) It will effect your ability to present a fly well so that it is fishing from the time it lands on the water. Go watch a typical fisher trying to cast 25 yards plus with a floating line and 10' of polyleader. I'd be willing to bet at least 60-70% of casts end with the leader and fly landing in a heap particularly in an upstream wind.

A multi-tip system is a more optimal, albeit more expensive, solution because the sinking tips are designed to be part of the overall profile and balance of the line. Hence they tend to cast and present better than full lines with Poly Leaders on the end.

Regardez

CLaG

[williegunn]

Or even better than a multi-tip line buy a slow intermediate which will fish the fly at the correct depth and is desinged to be cast, not like a line that some of it floats whilst other bits sink. YUK.

[donnieW]

williegunn said:

Or even better than a multi-tip line buy a slow intermediate which will fish the fly at the correct depth and is desinged to be cast, not like a line that some of it floats whilst other bits sink. YUK.

Excuse my ignorance, but how will a slow intermediate work (if required) as a full floater?

[rennie]

Ah well, slight disagreement here folks.Poly-tips (in my opinion)are the best thing since sliced bread enabling the thinking Salmon fisher to fine tune his rig depth wise(not that you both don't think).Considerably easier to cast than any sink tip,cheaper than a multi-tip(although wont gain the depth as well off a floater) a more delicate presentation than either.As far as casting goes well nothing comes easy and the technique must be learned as with anything including a floater(cast your mind back to your early days with sinkers if your memory is good enough).As far as loops go well any thing that encourages you to think about what you are doing cant be a bad thing,junk any form of braided add on loop,strip the coating off the fly line and whip and loop the core nice and neat,small too,then Aquasure to finish. Flexibility cant be a bad thing either easier to simply change a poly-tip than a full line or cheaper than two fully made up rods and differing lines(if thats important).Rarely if ever fish a full floater these days usually at least a clear hover or intermediate poly-tip(clear cant be a bad thing either),I feel poly-tips let me keep my offerings at 4" under the surface a lot better when needed.Oh by the way usually cut 18" off the tip of all my lines I may use a poly-tip on that helps turn over too.When you think about it how much of our gear is suitable or does what it says straight from the tin? I think we are all guilty of a spot of tinkering/fine tuning of some sort.Don't get me wrong I don't use poly-tips to the exclusion of all else,very guilty of fishing with multi-tips,intermediates and all forms of sinkers,but poly-tips give me flexibility in my fishing and that gives me extra confidence which makes me think what I am doing.Of course if I don't have those three advantages I could simply whang it out and let it come round.
So Robbie you may gather I am a poly-tip fan,don't own a sink tip,awful things to cast stuck at a single tip sink rate too,love a poly tip on an intermediate or wet 2,like the line tip down where it needs to be less likely to foul any fish that way,easier to roll or simply cast straight into a spey cast,look at the new sinking lines being designed that way,density compensated in the tip.Casting isn't a problem have seen to that and presentation is as I want it still nice and straight but added depth control.Oh by the way if any one has unloved poly-tips I can offer a warm cosy home in a nice plastic wallet with other treasured poly-tips nestling in my wading jacket.Yours impressed with poly-tips Pedro.

[castlikeaghille]

williegunn said:

.. YUK.

Steady Emperor, you are beginning to opine in toddler speak

Yours ever

CLaG

[salmonking]

I totaly agree with clag,chucking polyleaders on a big river esp
the presentation is 9/10 garbage,but the clear floater,hover,intermediate are a must on smaller spate type rivers
esp in low water,for me they have become essential.

[robbie]

Sorry Salmon king I am being a bit thick here. Not sure what you are suggesting for smaller rivers. Leaders or lines?
Cheers
Robbie

[salmonking]

Quite simple really, clear poly leader helps in smaller rivers ,when covering fish, you are less likely to spook them.

[williegunn]

donniewhiteford said:

Excuse my ignorance, but how will a slow intermediate work (if required) as a full floater?

It won't of course, but it is quicker to change lines than start removing and replacing tips.

[donnieW]

williegunn said:

donniewhiteford said:

Excuse my ignorance, but how will a slow intermediate work (if required) as a full floater?

It won't of course, but it is quicker to change lines than start removing and replacing tips.

It's a lot quicker changing tips and much easier to carry spare tips around instead of spare spools or reels. I would be surprised if anyone could dispute this. Personally, I find it better to use the same line all day (with different tips) than to keep changing and having to alter your casting to suit.

[williegunn]

Well if you have 2 different lines on 2 different reels you can set up 2 different rods then just pick up one and carry on rather than start pulling the lines apart.

Get the gillie to carry the second rod out; saves wading ashore.

[donnieW]

williegunn said:

Well if you have 2 different lines on 2 different reels you can set up 2 different rods then just pick up one and carry on rather than start pulling the lines apart.

Get the gillie to carry the second rod out; saves wading ashore.

With the multi-tip, I have numerous lines on one reel on one rod. I don't have to suffer a ghillie all day either!!

[robbie]

Have the forum members ever carried out a forum based "multi tip " comparison thread ? If so can anyone give me a clue where to look. If not, it would be something I would certainly find useful, especially as multi tips lines carry a higher price. Maybe I should have put this thread on Tackle Talk ?

[salmonshrimp]

Perhaps the simplest solution is to use weighted flies instead of weighted leaders. After all the objective is to fish the fly a liitle deeper. Why do we ruin our scientifically balanced floating lines, (to the grain), and fiddle around with extra rods reels lines and leaders when all we've got to do is change the weight of the fly. ??

[williegunn]

dixie said:

Perhaps the simplest solution is to use weighted flies instead of weighted leaders.

Ah but theres the rub, a weighted fly has less movement than an unweighted fly.

[salmonshrimp]

Very true but do we not fish these leaders in high water rather than low water, therefore the extra water would compenstate for the weight ;-)

[salmonshrimp]

springer said:

dixie said:

Perhaps the simplest solution is to use weighted flies instead of weighted leaders. After all the objective is to fish the fly a liitle deeper. Why do we ruin our scientifically balanced floating lines, (to the grain), and fiddle around with extra rods reels lines and leaders when all we've got to do is change the weight of the fly. ??

Because you reach a point where to gain sufficient depth the fly has to be really heavy, as a result it doesn't cast well on a floating line usually with a fairly fine front taper.

Possibly however this may be down to the casters style and not actually what is being cast!

Silk lines greenheart rods and huge single irons up to 7/0 or 9/0 spring to mind. These irons were heavier than any modern weighted fly and they were cast by the older generation with ease.

[williegunn]

springer said:

Malcolm,

I can see where your coming from regarding Floating/sink tip lines but wonder, have you tried the latest generation ie Monteith and Drury Multi Tips, they are far removed from lines of 3 or 4 yrs ago. Far easier to cast IMO than a full intermediate for some people. That said I still use my Carron Inter a lot.

Yes I've tried a Monteith multi-tip line, it cast not badly BUT it is still almost impossible to control the lift with the front half sunk and the rear part floating. It casts well enough if rolled to the surface, but an intermediate or sinker does that much better.

Everyone to their own thing, if you like casting big fat lines don't let me stop you.

[munrokiller]

(Get the gillie to carry the second rod out; saves wading ashore.)

Malcolm,

You could also get the Ghillie to cast it for you; save the line landing in a heap!

You do make me smile. ;D ;D

Had to modify my post - Just caught up on a few threads and after around an hour, have confirmed my opinion that this site has far less to offer than it had, hence my lack of posts - by the way my remarks above are not at all connected to the bullshit on the Speycasting thread, some folk need to get out more!

See you on the river.


Robbie,

The use of polyleaders simply gives you the added flexibility to fish deeper/slower with a floating line. The most common lengths are 5 & 10 feet and although they obviously affect your casting and presentation somewhat, especially with fast-sink tips, in my view they are a worthwhile addition to the salmon fishers armoury.

Multi-Tip ( Systems ) incorporate a bolstered floating line with 'Spey Heads' of various lenghts depending on manufacturer, to which you can attach a variety of Tips of different densities. Unlike the traditional floaters, these lines are designed to cope with the tips and I can assure you that they do in fact cast very well. Like anything, certain models suit some and not others - everyone has their favourites, mine being the Monteith.

Have a go from the line pool.