grilse

[akflyrod]

all of our salmon die when they return to spawn, even the jacks (same as grilse) so i have several questions i would like answered.
i have read many posts for the c & r and safe guarding of spring fish , now!! when the eggs hatch and the fish leave the river, and return as grilse, all i hear is kill the grilse as they eat the eggs ?
if they were returned as per spring fish, would they not leave the river / get larger and return as large spring fish. ??
if this is the case ,should the grilse not be entitled to the same protection as a spring fish.

gary

[williegunn]

akflyrod said:

i have read many posts for the c & r and safe guarding of spring fish , now!! when the eggs hatch and the fish leave the river, and return as grilse, all i hear is kill the grilse as they eat the eggs ?
gary

The old timers always reckoned the grilse made their redds later than the spring fish and in doing so disturbed the earlier redds. This was the basis of asking for the grilse to be killed, rather than eating the eggs.
Hopefully this out dated opinion is less prevalent than previously, we should know better.

[charlieh]

Grilse don't eat salmon eggs - the eggs hatch in the early spring, and grilse don't appear until early/mid summer.

As for them returning for a second time, although (unlike pacific salmon) a few do survive, the numbers are small. In the UK, typically only about 5% of fish are repeat spawners. So releasing fish in the hope that they will return to spawn again is only a faint hope. Incidentally, I think that multiple spawners may be more common in Canada than in Europe, and sea trout certainly will make multiple spawnings, so your 'put them back to grow bigger' argument might hold true for them.

There are a couple of sound reasons for affording particular protection to spring fish. First, in recent years numbers have declined so they have typically become the smallest of the cohorts of fish, though this may be due to the natural cycle of runs which has always tended to shift to and fro. Secondly, they are probably more vulnerable than other groups of fish to rod pressure - they tend to be good takers, and obviously are in the river for longer, so rods could take a disproportionate harvest even by fair means.

But that aside, the extra protection for spring fish may not be entirely rational. They have also tended to be regarded as a particular prize - a 20lb springer is generally regarded as more of a trophy than a 20lb autumn fish. One reason for this may be that spring fish are usually the best eating, and commanded a good price in the market, which obviously isn't such a good reason if you're not keeping your fish to eat, let alone selling them.

If the cycle of runs did shift, and springers became commonplace again, to the detriment of other runs, I wonder if we would treat scarce grilse with the same reverence. I suspect not, which would indicate that some of the special treatment afforded to springers stems at least in part from sentiment.

[paulsewin]

Hi AA,

A lot of people could give you their opinions or repeat heresay but I recommend you try to get hold of a copy of The Lives Of Salmon: Life-History Of Atlantic Salmon by Alan Youngson and David Hay. This is a book written by Scottish fisheries scientists and summarises their experiences over years of research on the Girnock burn, a tributary of the Dee.

Everything is in their, the fact that springers arrive first and spawn higher up the burn than summer fish and grilse, the fact that multiple matings with different partners takes place, the impact of parr in spawning, parr densities, etc.

"they tend to be good takers, and obviously are in the river for longer, so rods could take a disproportionate harvest even by fair means."
Charlie H, they are in the river for longer, but once they water warms up to prevent any obstacle being a barrier to them, they flood through the river very quickly to get to the higher reaches. If you are lucky enough to intercept them when they pause, they are willing takers but so are all salmon in the same conditions.

It's the pausing "running" fish that is the easiest. Apart from very late fish, most fish run the same distance up the main stem of the river.

I think you answered your own question about why they are so prized. They are the best eating and I think they are the best looking fish. Perhaps the fact that they are often the first fish caught in a season adds to their special appeal. No-one feels their season has really started until they've caught a fish.

Paul

[akflyrod]

thanks 4 the info guys i understand a little better now

[zephead]

Have to say I have no problem chapping them on Tweed in the summer at all provided I have a use for them.

IMHO they are a big part of the problem in the decline in the size of back-end Tweed fish across the board,despite any scientific evidence/reportage from the Commissioner's lab room to the contrary.

10 years or so ago Tweed never had a big recognised grilse run,a la Spey for example,despite the rods being off and them not being fished for in the summer in the days before Greedline let every day that God sends.

Nowadays,in an average year they are ten a penny but don't seem to have the good grace and bugger off at the back end but keep on coming amongst the October/November salmon.

Having seen the cheeky wee buggers on the redds they are in like a shot to fertlilise eggs when a hen salmon is letting go her eggs whilst a bigger cock fish she has paired up wth is maybe a bit slower to draw up alongside his mate and do what nature intended.Surely this must have a detrimental affect on the grilse/salmon genetic make-up of the fertilised eggs/returning fish from that fertilisation?

I agree with a netsman I know that these fish have been allowed to the redds by the lack of summer netting-when previously they would have had a good thinning out below Coldstream bridge-and the fact that there are many more of them is a cause for concern to myself and many other back-end Tweed rods.

Perhaps brighter and more informed minds have further views to add?

ZH