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Post by robbie on Aug 24, 2007 17:35:52 GMT
Have you ever noticed the lengths coarse anglers go to protect fish like Carp and Pike during c&r. Soft-Knotless Landing nets, unhooking mats and weigh slings, even antiseptic gel to put on hook "holes". While I realise this sort of fishing is more static than Salmon fishing and therefore easier to have this stuff to hand a lot of us carry a net already and possibly weighing scales. Can we learn anything from these habits? will they work for us? should we be more careful with C&R ?
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Post by tynetraveller on Aug 24, 2007 20:17:39 GMT
Hi Robbie, a lot of research in Russia into C and R has shown that there are three main factors in fish survival after release.
By far the most important of these is the amount of time the fish is out of the water- In Russia the fish are unhooked in the net and are lifted out for only a few seconds to be weighed, then back in the water while the camera is readied, then lifted for the shot and they are back in the river for good.
Second, surprisingly is how fresh the fish is. The fresher the fish, the lower the survival rate- Probably due to the extra stress that moving from salt to fresh puts on the fish.
Thirdly and most obviously, the shorter the fight, the better the chance of survival.
Russian research shows 5-10% mortality- The vast majority of these are badly hooked fish that are killed rather than returned to die. Almost all non-bleeders that revive OK seem to survive to spawn.
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Post by robbie on Aug 24, 2007 20:34:45 GMT
Hi TT, Interesting info, especially about fresher fish being more vulnerable- for no logical reason I would have thought the opposite. I have seen the Russian C&R tactics in the Paul Young films and had noticed how careful they were. What I find surprising here in the UK, is that many fish are "beached" and spend some time flapping around on gravel/rocky riverbanks only to be unhooked and released. I also wonder how the fish are actually weighed, is it with a sling/bag? or just with the scales shoved through the gill rakers? I write this guardedly as I have been guilty of this myself, but I do feel that if we are observing C&R because we wish to conserve fish stocks, that we could possibly try to improve our fish handling or am I over egging the cake?
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Post by rpsalmon on Aug 24, 2007 22:44:15 GMT
I am shocked to hear it suggested that fresher fish are more vulnerable, this contradicts my practical experience from angling and catching/releasing fish in tagging operations. If you are aware of any documentation/report that is written in English and confirms the Russian findings, I would be grateful for the link or source.
It is certainly the case that keeping the fish in the water is best, if I weigh then I do it with the fish in the Gye net and deduct the weight of the net after wards. If I want a photo for purposes of proof then I switch the camera on in my pocket, so that I am ready to take a picture immediately, and quickly try to snatch a photo with the fish on the bank. I used to measure fish length/body but now don't bother unless it is 25Ib+. I think it is only right to have alook at your catch, and handle it with wet hands, but never through the gills-sadly there are people who still do this. Mats etc are fine if keeping fish in good condition for a photo in a set place, but for anglers on the move this isn't realistic. Landing nets with micromesh will get carried away in the stream and most probably increase the time taken to land a salmon, I think we have gone as far as we can there.
One thing that could be done is educate anglers to reduce the playing process to a minimum bu advising them on playing fish, getting fish off balance, preventing the fish from "getting a second wind", planning where to land them, dangers of river features, how the fish is likely to use the current to its advantage etc.
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Post by robbie on Aug 25, 2007 9:07:36 GMT
Could Lactic acid build up be a contributing cause of fresh run salmon/catch fatalities. I suppose it could depend on how fresh is fresh. If a fish has run hard from the sea and is then promptly hooked and fought to point of exhaustion perhaps we should not be surprised if it keels over. Certainly some hard fought Pike suffer from a condition of "gassing"up. This is thought to be due to Lactic acid build up. Full recovery can be made, however this can take several hours with the fish supported in an upright position. I have even seen Pike placed in a Pike tube and lowered into deeper water in the belief, mistaken or otherwise, that water pressure may assist recovery.
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Post by stuart on Aug 25, 2007 19:23:13 GMT
Some people don't spend enough time holding fish into the current untill they are ready to swim away. I have hed to hold fish fot 5 - 10 minutes before they are strong enough.
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Post by rpsalmon on Aug 26, 2007 16:18:49 GMT
I have just found a report of a test on coho salmon in British Columbia(Parker/Black/Larkin). Coho salmon (100) were caught in the sea and kept in live boxes, the lactic acid peaked at three to four hours after hooking, just under half the captured salmon (49) died. In the first hour after hooking 1 died, within two hours 25 died, within the third hour 14 died, 9 more died in the following six hours.
Coho were again tested once they had entered the river but it was found that NONE of the fish died after release, even though many of these river caught fish had fought to the point of exhaustion. The scientists concluded that the lactic acid did not build up to such high proportions in the closed river environment because the fish did not fight as hard as they did in the open sea.
In light of this, I wonder if the salmon deaths in the Russian catch & release tests were carried out on fish in the sea or estuary?
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Post by rpsalmon on Aug 26, 2007 16:27:58 GMT
I used to hold fish for long periods in the current but now take a different approach after five minutes. This change of approach occurred on a cold spring day, with freezing hands and a cold & bad back, I didn't think I was capable of bending over and supporting the fish for much longer. Therefore I took the fish to the side where there was a very gentle current and placed/supported it between my ankles, I was surprised to see it swim off quite strongly after a minute and couldn't help but think that the fact that I wasn't holding/supporting it with my hands meant it was less concerned/stressed. Anyway I have tried this on numerous occasions since then and it has surprised me how often it has worked and then how quickly the fish has recovered. Obviously this doesn't work in a strong current because you have to hold the front and rear of the fish.
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Post by flybox on Aug 28, 2007 14:19:58 GMT
My views on anglers who take salmon out of the water are unprintable. As for putting it on the bank to take a photograph and then returning it... I'd like to hold the angler under the water for a similar period. I've never seen a fish caught that cannot be unhooked whilst still in the water, though no doubt it happens sometimes.
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Post by tynetraveller on Aug 28, 2007 14:53:57 GMT
The Russian data is based on approx. five years of C and R of fly caught salmon in fresh water- Albeit that the spring fish are generally caught very close to the estuary- The summary of the study can be found in the 'big fish science' section on the Kharlovka web site at www.kharlovka.com I would think that the study sample was in the area of 10,000 fly caught salmon. The study states that 'the longer the fish has been in fresh water before being caught, the lower the mortality'- ie Fresher fish have a lower survivval rate.
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