Cast and take a step

[doublehooked]

Cast and step is usually the order of the day.
But have never fished over populated waters, but common courtesy would prevail if you had a few guys coming down behind you.
(If you have big boneheads breathing down your neck take big steps if not, fairy steps is the order of the day trying different retrieves over the same water)

Yours in sport
Jake.

[rpsalmon]

I agree that a practice of step per cast leads to a reduced and often inefficient range of methods. When on a beat with "good fly water" that has been filled with so many rods as to raise the issue of "friction", it is invariably the case that we anglers will "fall into line". I have always refused to fish waters where I would be expected to fish 30-40 yards from other anglers in a line. Even on streamy water with various pools and riffles that could hold many anglers, and unless specifically fishing with someone for a reason, I would not fish somewhere unless I have 150 yards of "space". Obviously something can be arranged with friends or other anglers with different ideas to the norm, the problem with strangers is that there is a concern they would be pressured into fishing in an alternative or unknown fashion.

On Ghillied beats you can have extreme difficulty in persuading Ghillies to fish the beat differently, but I have also experienced the opposite and the Ghillie has advised us to fish the beat completely unconventionally. The best way I have found to win over Ghillies is to use standard tactics as the norm, but to use and then catch fish with alternative methods to win them over for a later time.

Unless you can afford your own beat, there is nothing to beat having a syndicate of similar minded rods fishing a stretch.

[elwyman]

Agree with what you say Steve, but personally I'd head off to find a quieter pool, if possible.

[para1]

Never fished any hard fished association waters then

[tweedsider]

Hello Lamson cast and a step seem to be the thing but some association permits may give specific instructions, so it pays to read the small print when fishing on busy waters.

[rpsalmon]

You can actually use this approach to help you, in that if you are in a line of anglers and take note of the other anglers tactics you can learn from their success/failure and use similar/different fly or fishing angle/depth. After all, there is not much point in fishing the same way as everyone else.

[hornet]

Never fished in a line of anglers and i would think it would probably piss me off and make me leave.

I feel cast and step is not the way to fish at all especially if you want to vary retrieves, speed of fly and angles over known lies.


Hornet

[williegunn]

It is probably better to fish a pool fast twice than once too slowly

[hornet]

WG,

I have found taking my time was more successful than zipping through. Surely trying a couple of casts then moving gives me more chance of inducing a fish to take a fly.

Can you explain a little more on fishing fast.

I have read the last two months T&S on fishing fast and have still to really try some of those methods on a consistant basis.

Hornet

[williegunn]

Fish the pool once with a size 8 ,10 or what ever then try a completely different tactic.
Showing the same fish the same fly twice has very little effect. IMO

[rpsalmon]

Willie Gunn actually mentioned fishing the POOL fast, not fishing fast, though in fishing a pool fast you could also fish your fly quickly.

The main problem with fishing slowly, say taking a step between each cast, is that the fish will probably be able to see the fly twice or thrice before it actually gets near it and therefore there is less likelihood of a reaction; whereas if you'd cast every two or three paces then any fish may only get to see the fly once and have to make up its mind quickly as to whether to take.

Of course you can also fish your fly quickly, though that isn't always the most effective tactic. An easy way to get into fishing fast, and be rather successful, is simply to put on a collie dog and try to see how quickly you can fish it across the current! The benefit of using a Collie dog is that as long as you keep it under the surface, there are some instances where you should riffle it or fish it through the surface but initially you can dismiss these tactics, it is often impossible to fish it too quickly!

[hornet]

Cheers WG & RPS

[juststartedagain]

Fish the pool once with a size 8 ,10 or what ever then try a completely different tactic.
Showing the same fish the same fly twice has very little effect. IMO

Have been doing this last few outings and definate increase in plucks and pulls - so hopefully not long before one results in a catch.

2nd time through I also change casting angle and possibly also speed of fly.

[DAZ]

hornet said:

I feel cast and step is not the way to fish at all especially if you want to vary retrieves, speed of fly and angles over known lies.

I agree hornet.
IMHO it is impossible to fish a pool effectively by taking a step a cast.I will make has many casts with the particular fly,and line set up I am fishing at the time,until I have convinced myself I have done all I can with it.By making numerous casts at different angles,incorporating mends etc! etc!,we can fish the fly at different depths,and speeds,greatly improving the chance of a fish..By making one cast then taking a step you can only fish one part of the water column,top,middle,or bottom,depending on which fly,line,you have on at the time.
It's all well and good fishing down a pool fast with a fly fished sub surface,and on occasions fish will move a long way to the fly,but there are alot of times when they wont,and the fly needs to be placed in their face,or relatively close to get a response.By making mends in the line etc! etc! we might just get our fly down deep enough to get that response.

Also by fishing the pool down fast,or taking a step a cast,and only being able to fish one part of the water column as I have stated by doing so.You may have missed the chance of a fish by not making mends etc! and searching the water with what we have on at the time because.By the time you have fished the pool through to the tail,got out of the water to change flies and lines,walked back up to the top of the pool.The fish that was there might have buggerd off in to the next pool.

I agree it is only polite and courteous to get a bit of a shift on when others are waiting to fish behind you,but I won't be bullied out of a pool.

DAZ.

[tweedsider]

williegunn said:

It is probably better to fish a pool fast twice than once too slowly

Hello WG Did Faukus say that also in one of his books? I would agree entirely as it is not always the first fly through a pool or stream which triggers a response.

[salmonking]

Id agree ,but its not that great an idea if there are a couple of other guys standing waiting ,ie a queue,which happens from time to time on club waters, if this is the case,ill put a dropper on with 2 different sizes of flies.

[williegunn]

daz said:

but I won't be bullied out of a pool.

DAZ.

I would avoid the Little Isle on the Ness town water then!

[tweedsider]

There is a huge army of salmon anglers out there who fish exclusively on club waters, surely the cast a step or two steps is a matter of courtesy to others. Yes we would all like to linger over a favourite lie, but would you like to follow a lingerer?

[rpsalmon]

There seems to be a misunderstanding of what it means to "fish a pool quickly". I certainly didn't interpret the phrase to mean an angler should fish a pool so quickly that he misses a proportion of the pool, because in missing part of the pool the angler fails to fish "the pool", I took it to mean that the angler fishes the entire pool in a prompt fashion and generally not let the fly fish the same path twice. Of course if you get a pull or pluck then think about what has happened with your fly pattern/size/speed/depth/presentation and adjust accordingly so that you can attempt to catch it. Neither does fish a pool quickly mean that you should fish the fly so quickly that the fish have trouble catching or, can't catch the fly because they are too far away and don't have the time to be tempted or catch the fly.

Work out the best methods for catching fish on the stretch you are to fish and carry these plans out, just don't present the same fly through the same piece of water twice. In an average depth of water of say 5ft, and say the salmon is lying at 4ft depth it will have a visible window above of roughly 8-9ft but will be able to see sub surface flies beyond this range from the surface mirror. I think salmon can see flies at up to 20 yards maximum but more normally take real notice of flies that appear within the window (in this example 3 yards), but depending on water clarity and obstructions in the water (also the fish's psychological state) etc, this will be reduced or extended.

The real benefit of fishing down a stream at a "cast every yard" is that you are likely to cover all fish and allow the "immediate taker" to take, a second benefit is that because the water has been fished quicker and therefore should have had less disturbance, you have a higher chance of being able to go back and fish the same stretch again without having to fish over overly educated fish. When you fish the second time you have a good idea of what didn't work the first time and can amend your fly and tactics using the experience you gained on the first run down the pool. If a run consists of slower smooth water and you know there isn't any significant obstructions on the bottom you could fish a 1 1/2, 2 or 3 paces between casts and still cover the water.

[elwyman]

tweedsider said:

There is a huge army of salmon anglers out there who fish exclusively on club waters, surely the cast a step or two steps is a matter of courtesy to others. Yes we would all like to linger over a favourite lie, but would you like to follow a lingerer?

Well put, that's the argument in a nutshell.

Heard that an angler lost a fish on Duke's pool on Hoddom last week and he stayed rooted to almost the same spot for 3 days! I'm not sure what the other anglers did.

When things are quiet, I tend to fish fairly fast and cover lots of water. I 've waded down long pools at night fishing for sea trout and come across static anglers fishing a hotspot - a few polite words and I'll wade behind them to continue fishing down the pool, silently cusring them for hogging the hotspot. ;D