Suitable/Unsuitable Rods

[robbie]

Thought I'd open a new can of worms and stick my neck out!. I will start by describing a scenario : 5 anglers and an AAGPAI instructor, 3 of the anglers were inexperienced ( 1 season). 4 of the 5 anglers including the newbies had Guideline LPXE 15' rods, The Instructor spent all day helping the "new" guys cast as they were struggling. The Instructor eventually produced a "softer" Greyflex Mk2 and within minutes all the newbies were putting out full lines like old timers and were fighting over the rod. These guys had been sold the LPXE rods by a well intentioned dealer . however in my unqualified opinion they were outgunned by the rods. As many on this forum would agree, the LPXE is a grand tool, good value and well made, however I believe they were desighned for the Vikings, with Underhand casting being favoured. I felt that the newbies, learning traditional casts and techniques was made harder by the unsuitability of the rod. I now own 3 wildly different rods, having bought rods on verbal recomendations. You Ghillies out there must see this all the time, or am I wrong?

[williegunn]

You are correct, the other problem is people using shooting heads on old spagetti rods.

[rpsalmon]

Then surely the obvious thing to do is recommend rods most suitable for the complete beginner & intermediate which will help them most. An instructor could give general advice here, or an angler should ask an instructor for a recommendation.

[robbie]

RPS, That is the obvious answer to us, however most people start fishing with well meaning members of the family or friends, Sadly some of whom give advice based on little or no experience. Also many come to salmon fishing later in life and simply wander into a tackle shop with a full wallet and leave 10 minutes later with an empty one!

[turrifftackle]

I am not a fan of fast rods and the thought of shooting heads is daunting. Put the two together and I was scared .

My experience with them always led me to believe that a fast action rod for a beginner whether trout or salmon was a bad idea.
However the most popular rod sold to them as far as trout fishing goes was a Sharpes Gordon- A fast action rod.

I have just spent a few hours with an instructor and one thing he said was that all anglers should have a basic grounding in Spey Casting before moving on to shooting heads. So perhaps the instructor should have started them on the softer rods and then moved them on to the LPXe( mindful of the fact that they had bought the rods- and obviously wanted to fish with them)

So after a demo and my eagerness to learn- three casts and I am away. After a dozen casts I am into Snap and circle T 's.

And the Kit used-- Vision GT4 Catapult - not just a fast rod but very fast rod and vision shooting heads.

The other thing with the shooting heads is that these ones do not require cutting and are matched by weight to the rod.

It is all so easy when you are given proper instruction and all my misconceptions were blown away.
It suits my style and the demo kit came home with me.
I have been converted!!!!!!
I also tried all the trout rods with shooting heads and I can safely say all my old style rods and lines have their days numbered.

It comes back down to the same old thing repeated on here time and again. The best value you will ever get is a few hours with an instructor.

So all you customers out there - please do not chap the tackle dealer on the chin if he advises you not to buy something because he feels you might not be up to the job or he wants to talk you out of you using your old DT line which you are using on your LPXe.

Frank

[robbie]

Frank, all that you say is true. In defence of the instructor,the newbies arrived alraedy armed with the LPXE with conventional lines and shooting heads and struggled with both. The instructor I think had to be diplomatic for a while, rather than immediately tell them that they had maybe something innapropriate for their level of experience and thus had possibly wasted money.

[rpsalmon]

Snap Cast and Circle T etc, etc, etc

Aren't these just excuses for casting instructors to earn more money? Surely any spey caster will automatically adjust his cast to the casting environment and make these casts without really thinking.

[Speyducer]

turrifftackle said:

I am not a fan of fast rods and the thought of shooting heads is daunting. Put the two together and I was scared .

My experience with them always led me to believe that a fast action rod for a beginner whether trout or salmon was a bad idea.
However the most popular rod sold to them as far as trout fishing goes was a Sharpes Gordon- A fast action rod.

I have just spent a few hours with an instructor and one thing he said was that all anglers should have a basic grounding in Spey Casting before moving on to shooting heads. So perhaps the instructor should have started them on the softer rods and then moved them on to the LPXe( mindful of the fact that they had bought the rods- and obviously wanted to fish with them)

So after a demo and my eagerness to learn- three casts and I am away. After a dozen casts I am into Snap and circle T 's.

And the Kit used-- Vision GT4 Catapult - not just a fast rod but very fast rod and vision shooting heads.

The other thing with the shooting heads is that these ones do not require cutting and are matched by weight to the rod.

It is all so easy when you are given proper instruction and all my misconceptions were blown away.
It suits my style and the demo kit came home with me.
I have been converted!!!!!!
I also tried all the trout rods with shooting heads and I can safely say all my old style rods and lines have their days numbered.

It comes back down to the same old thing repeated on here time and again. The best value you will ever get is a few hours with an instructor.

So all you customers out there - please do not chap the tackle dealer on the chin if he advises you not to buy something because he feels you might not be up to the job or he wants to talk you out of you using your old DT line which you are using on your LPXe.

Frank

The most important factor is to match rod and line.

Then, one has a half-chance at making decent casts, under instruction or not.

I have certainly benefited from some instruction, not only to attempt to iron out long-ingrained casting faults, but also to learn new casts (Skagit), when I attended the Skeena (BC) Spey School April this year - with Dana Sturn (Speypages.com) and fishing out of the Z-Boat Lodge in Terrace.

With the correctly balanced rod and line, then anything is possible.

Mike

[speyghillie]

Hi rpsalmon,
I think i'm with you on this one, there is a new cast every week, and some look mighty fine, the trouble with what is now called water based casts, is water disturbance.
Most of the casts cause enough noise on the water to scare any fish for miles around, i think noise travels through water ten time greater than air, so i guess its good for waking the fish up. ;D

[beanieboy]

It is not difficult to cast a 65' head spey line with either the 15' Catapult or the LPXe. Interesting to know what lines were being used. It doesn't really matter what rod the novice is using if the line is beyond him/her. Interesting too your mention of the Greys M2 - this rod is a big seller, yet gets little mention on these forums - the original Greyflex was one of the nicest rods for floating line work ever - the newer M2 is supposed to be better.

[billytheghillie]

Yes robbie i see it all the time- you should buy a abc rod and line, look at me i can cast for miles with it. The bottom line is try before you buy get proper instruction, dont be pushed into buying. I think the problem is the angler who has bought a top of the range rod after reading reviews in t&s etc and cannot use it, he then blames his rod, old saying A bad workman blames his tools! Basically if you know what you are doing casting wise you can cast with any set up.