Fly fishing or spinning skills

[buntinbee]

Having read through the various forums that have come on the scene on salmon fishing, one thing they all have in common is the condescending attitude that a lot of participants show for spinning.

First of all let me point out that I do most of my fishing on hard fished association water, and secondly I do not have an axe to grind on whether I catch fish on the fly or spinning. My own personal ratio is probably in the region of 50/50 and has been for the last 15 years or so. Prior to that I viewed fly caught fish as something special, something that happened on the best of beats, caught mainly by upper echelon of the fishing fraternity, both money wise and skill wise.
I have now learned otherwise.
However, every time the subject comes up on forums, I see a great swathe of pretentious, elitist and quite frankly, snobbishly ignorant people wading into the pool, causing unwarranted waves.
Why can these people not realise that there is no BETTER way only DIFFERENT ways of catching salmon. I have no problem with anyone having a self imposed fly only restriction but why should they impose their preferences on anyone else?

"Would you like a drink?
What?_Beer?
Oh dear me no, that's no good at all. It needs to be gin and tonic. You see that's what I drink so you must have the same"

As I mentioned before, I catch about 50% of my salmon on the fly and the other 50% are caught spinning. I go fishing to catch salmon and fish with what I believe will give me the best chance on the day within the rules.
It is one thing fishing on a bit of top class water which has a good stock of fish and is limited to three rods, another thing entirely sharing your beat with twenty other people and wondering if there are any salmon at all in the water.
I know that there are people who say that catching the fish is not important, it is the surroundings, the wildlife, the sound of the river and satisfaction of putting out a perfectly executed spey cast which make the day, and that catching a salmon is just a bonus. To these people I would ask if they would go fishing knowing that there were no salmon in the river – the only thing they would be sacrificing is the chance of a bonus fish. No, I wouldn’t bother going fishing without at least a chance of a salmon either. As I said, I go fishing to catch salmon first and foremost.

I think we should ask ourselves a few questions on whether it is better, or more skillful to catch a salmon on the fly or the spinner.
Is it more skilful to catch a salmon on the fly or the spinner?
Given that at least 90% of fly caught salmon which I have witnessed are caught on a floating line, cast at 45 degrees to the stream, allowing the fly to swing round with the occasional mend to slow or speed the progress. I would say that there is not a huge amount of skill involved in the catching of 90% of fly caught fish.
Bearing in mind the huge improvements in today’s spey taper fly lines and carbon rods, it is well within the grasp of the average fisher to be able to throw at least 25 yards within a day of picking up a rod. In the hands of a competent caster, I would seriously doubt if a spinner could be cast much further than the fly. Even if your fly line lands in a crumpled heap, how many seconds is it before the current finishes the job for you and your fly is fishing in an attractive manner?
I would not for one minute suggest that there is no skill involved in fishing the fly. A good, thinking, fly fisher will out fish an average fisher most days. I would, however say that the difference in skill levels between a good fly fisher versus an average fly fisher and the skill levels between a good spinner and an average spinner are totally disproportionate. I have seen it too many times that a good spinner will out fish an average spinner manyfold, often taking fish out of water that has been fished through by several other anglers. A good fly fisher may do this too, but not to the same degree.
I read a lot that some fishers find spinning too mechanical, I would suggest that they are not ‘in touch’ with the bait and what it is doing. Fly casting could be viewed in the same way, as I said before, 90% of fly fishing is done with the same length of cast at an angle of 45 degrees, a mend or two and the fly is allowed to swing round.

There are other points to be taken into consideration as well.
What is the actual difference between a tube fly and a devon minnow, between a collie dog and a rapala. Other than the method used to propel them across the river, I don’t really see much.
Water disturbance. How many fly fishers wade to fish their chosen method? Far more than those with a spinning rod.
How much disturbance is caused by the mechanics of either method? The spinning bait is cast and lands with a plop, then an alien object is brought across the stream through the salmon’s environment on a barely visible spinning line.
The fly is cast, lands with a smaller plop, followed by the fly line, then an alien object is brought across the stream through the salmon’s environment, along with the highly visible fly line. In all honesty, which method is going to cause more disturbance? This does not take into account those that repeatedly cast three or four times until they decide that they have finally got their cast right, or the high proportion of spey casters and the associated water disturbance.
Remember it is a totally different thing fishing on a private beat where a pool may be fished once in the morning and then again in the afternoon and a club water which may see a procession of anglers from dawn to dusk.
Then, of course, we come to the conservation aspect. I have caught too many salmon with the fly down in the gill rakers to believe that it is any less likely to damage a fish than a devon minnow or rapala. I would certainly say that a lot of fish are hooked farther back with the flying ‘C’ than most baits though.
If you are out to release every salmon that you catch with as little stress to the fish as possible, you would never choose to fish the fly. I do not believe that anyone could honestly say that a fish can be landed faster on fly tackle than spinning tackle. In my experience the fight lasts at least 25% longer on fly tackle than spinning tackle.
Please do not misread me, I am not decrying the fly, merely putting things in perspective as I see them.

[rennie]

Dont see any difference between fly fishing skills,spinning skills,worming skills.Only see fishing skills.Pedro.

[wilbert]

As in all methods of fishing there will be some anglers that are consistently more successful than other anglers due to the greater knowledge / skill they poses. I would not say that spinning catches any more fish than fly and vice versa.

For me spinning is a last resort and I have not picked up a spinning rod for over 12 months but do not look down on others for spinning however there has to be a point when they have fished the spinner too much and should want to pick up the fly. I fish mainly association water and 99% of the time I fish the fly because I enjoy it, I catch fish on this method, I also loose fish on this method and so far I have never had a fish take the fly down deep and have released something in the region of 90% of the fish I have caught. I am a working class man with a young family and I drink lager so it is definitely not a class thing with me its just my preferred method and just like Mastercard its accepted everywhere.

[Fruin]

IMHO, there are a set of skills that are learned, usually through error and experience, that are paramount to consistent success, regardless of whether you are spinning or fly-fishing.

1. Get to know the taking places for salmon (probably less important for very fresh fish). Fish will often show in numbers in one spot, but can be far more likely to take in a spot farther up or down stream.

2. Remember it is a wild animal that you are fishing for, and that they are wary of anything that they feel may threaten their existence. "Anything" is anything out of the ordinary, and, to a salmon entering fresh water, somebody clumsily wading through a pool or dragging/splashing a fly line or noisy bait across a glassy glide is definitely out of the ordinary.

3. Fish to the conditions that show before you, using instinct gained over the years. Many rivers and indiidual pools fish to different rules than shown in the books. A book may say a sinking line and a 2 inch tube, or a 1.5 inch devon bounced along, just off the bottom. However, experience may tell you a sink tip and a size ten treble, or a small flying C or abu droppen.

I would say that, as we are often trying to provoke an aggressive take from a salmon, spinners can often have the advantage, as they present with more of the desired vibration / water disturbance than the average fly-fisher can inject into their fly. As it is easier to cast a spinner and the line is less noticeable to fish, they are usually presented with less of the non-desired water disturbance caused by line splashes and clumsy wading.

When I know that I am fishing for only resident fish on assosciation water, I will rarely fish a glassy glide after a few rods have been through it as the chances of getting one of the residents to take after that disturbance is very slim. I will go through that glide after a decent break of fishing pressure, or, at last light if the residents are starting to stir.

I do nearly all my fishing with a fly rod. I do not do this through any form of snobbery; I just prefer it. I do think that it is harder to hook a fish on the fly in most situations, than it is on a spinner, and I think that is why some people get more pleasure out of fishing the fly.

I also detest people prattling on about how spinnning is the not a suitable way of fishing for salmon. The best fishers I know are experts with the fly rod, but also know when to switch to various forms of spinners or baits. I do not follow them down this road, but I definitely admire their knowledge and their perfect choice of tackle and lure for the conditions.

[sealicer]

I have to say i cannot disagree with any of your post buntinbee. I like to catch my salmon on the fly if possible, but i also like to have the option to spin as well. Too many people look down their noses at spinning, some are even going out of their way to try & ban spinning to get water to themselves, which is totally wrong. Long live the spinner.