Fluro carbon. Good As We Think?

[rennie]

Right cant get after Salar for the moment so getting my piscine fix with Barbel on the River Nidd.Now thing is Nidd Barbel are putting on weight and that means upping the gear,but the heavier you fish the less bites you get,the finer you fish the more bites you get and the more your gear gets totally trashed.
Now in a fit of techno.brainstorming decided to switch from 8lb Maxima to 10lb Fluro main line and 8lb Seaguar hook link.I usually fish a heavy wire spade end hook whipped on to the hook link but unless this is glued on with a waterproof glue the whipping simply comes undone.Now 8lb Maxima takes an awful lot of stick and has plenty of stretch 8lb Seaguar doesn't do either,it simply splinters and shatters when it gets near its limit.Now I had my suspicions last year when Sea Trouting on the Towy if I hooked the far bank bushes and had to pull for a break,it came all too easily whereas equivalent Maxima is a real struggle to break.I have also noticed when overhead casting a copper tube on Fluro. it tends to shatter and the tube disappears without the whip crack associated with maxima.Now I have never had to apply the sort of stick that I have to give to a Barbel to any Salmon,indeed they are not as tenacious or determined to be free from my hook as a Barbel,Sea Trout on the other hand especially the bigger Welsh specimens can be just as determined in their efforts to reach safety.Just a few observations that may provoke a thought or two or be of use,especially when you consider the comparative costs.

[madkeen]

Pedro came to the same conclusion last year at muirton when I was decorating the tree line with all my pretty tubes,it went something along the lines of 10 minutes casting with 20lb seagaur crack there goes another one left a frayed end.I ended up giving it to the mother in law for tying up tomatoe plants waste of a tenner.There was a local rod fishing(mallarkey kid)most days i was there he was catching more than most his choice of monfilament/flourocarbon was bulk spool of nylon from mullarkeys £5 for a mile of the stuff and didnt break ;D

[exerod]

I never thought it was any good in the first place. I tried it when it first came out (several brands), tested it before use and it failed far too easily for its stated breaking strain, heard a few horror stories from friends of lost fish, left a few flies on the far bank and went back to nylon.

I gave a friend a spinner last week, he tied it to a 15lb Orvis fluro trace, I said nothing, ten minutes later it lands in the far bank reeds, he pulled, crack! I gave him another, ten minutes later it went the same way I gave him a third and a length of 15lb Berkley nylon. Not long after he's into the reeds again. "Sorry" he says. "Don't worry, just pull" I reply. Far bank reeds uprooted and spinner safely returned

Nylon, half the price, twice as strong!

Andy

[jock]

I've always used maxima and had comtemplated the move towards the seagaurs of the fishing world. Looks like I'll stick with maxima.

[tynetraveller]

I now fish exclusively with SEAGUAR- There is no need to compare 8lb maxima with 8lb SEAGUAR- 19lb SEAGUAR is probably about the same thickness and I use 35lb for fishing big tubes. Wherever people fish fly for really large salmon all you will see is SEAGUAR leaders and when fish are lost 95% of the time it is the hook hold that goes.

When fishing tubes, I think leader thickness is fairly irrelevant, but when fishing a size 12 I would feel very disadvantaged to be be fishing maxima rather than fluorocarbon.


madkeen- Had you lined those tubes? Sounds very suspicious.

[ibm59]

I've used Seaguar almost exclusively for the last 4 seasons and , by sticking to required DIAMETER as opposed to strength , I havn't experienced any probs with crackoffs or sudden breakages.
Digit firmly attatched to large piece of wood after posting this.

[tynetraveller]

I agree that fish seeing the nylon is not a problem, but large diameter nylon does in my opinion hamper the movement of a small fly. Fluorocarbon allows you to fish much stronger line for the same diameter, not weaker. If the knot strength is slightly weaker, who cares? 19lb seaguar is still a hell of a lot stronger and more reliable than 8lb maxima, knots or no.

Whether it is worth the extra money is another question, but I would say 'yes' in low water or when fishing for specimens

Cheers, Simon

[wilbert]

I have gone from Maxima to Seaguar and in 3 years have experienced no problems with it. You do have to make sure your knots are tied and seated well and as with all lines some knots work better than others. I use 25lb and 30lb for fishing big tubes and I use the 15lb seaguar for the rest of my fishing. Maxima is still good and would be my No. 2 choice if I ran out of seaguar.

[exerod]

ibm59 said:

I've used Seaguar almost exclusively for the last 4 seasons and , by sticking to required DIAMETER as opposed to strength , I havn't experienced any probs with crackoffs or sudden breakages.
Digit firmly attatched to large piece of wood after posting this.

Exactly, from my experience to achieve the same consistent results with fluro you have to use stronger fluro. Surley this means fluro is weaker than nylon in real world fishing situations. There's no problem with using the heavier fluro but where is the gain... in the tackle dealers pocket

I've just had a look in Sportfish, 50m of 30lb Seaguar - £11.50 or about 20 pence/yard

Andy

[tynetraveller]

Granted, that works well- I was very impressed with the movement of saltwater flies when using the rapalla knot. I still dislike the idea of a knot half the size of the fly though..

[ibm59]

exerod said:

ibm59 said:

I've used Seaguar almost exclusively for the last 4 seasons and , by sticking to required DIAMETER as opposed to strength , I havn't experienced any probs with crackoffs or sudden breakages.
Digit firmly attatched to large piece of wood after posting this.

but where is the gain...

Andy

Increased strength for a given diameter and a very useful by product in the fact that fluoro sinks faster than mono and can help light flies from skating.
Again , horses for courses.

[tynetraveller]

IBM59, less of the friendly tone. I am fed up with all these stone age nylon users and.... challenge them all to a casting competition where I can prove the vast superiority of my expensive, low diameter leader. The losers will not ever be allowed to post again, will spend two years on an intensive punctuation and grammar course and will have their knackers removed with a rusty hacksaw, after donating their house to a salmon fishing charity of my choice.

[ibm59]

tynetraveller said:

IBM59, less of the friendly tone. I am fed up with all these stone age nylon users and.... challenge them all to a casting competition where I can prove the vast superiority of my expensive, low diameter leader. The losers will not ever be allowed to post again, will spend two years on an intensive punctuation and grammar course and will have their knackers removed with a rusty hacksaw, after donating their house to a salmon fishing charity of my choice.

;D ;D

[ibm59]

tynetraveller said:

and will have their knackers removed with a rusty hacksaw

I was emasculated years ago by Hazel, The Gin Guzzler.

[petersc]

I prefer FC thanks to its sinking properties but I don't like the way it easily snaps under sudden strain. It seems to be tough enough with an even, steady pull when snagged up, but if you yank on it . . . .

Lost three fish last season when the tippet snapped on the hit, no less. Never had a chance to set the hook as it was already well set and long gone. I like to use long, thin FC leaders along with fast sink rate flies so that the resulting drooping presentation, will attract hits from any angle, not just from the typical "upstream of the fish" position. But with that comes the reality that a fish heading downstream, when it hits the fly, has built up considerable momentum. Snap goes the tippet.

So it leaves me with the choice of continuing with the thin stuff, achieving a superior presentation and attracting more hits, but losing more fish vs. the opposite.

[rennie]

Some interesting thoughts there peeps,as far as comparing diameter for diameter goes well there are times you want/need the lower diameter thats where Fluro. goes t#ts up,also in the lower diameters Fluro. is considerably stiffer than mono. again could be a consideration to some.As for 35lb Fluro. well you wont break that with a Salmon rod(unless you forget to put on the top two sections of the rod) in a fishing situation and 35lb Maxima forget to even try, maybe you could argue that whoso ever is fishing for really large Salmon wont be bothered about the cost probably because they can afford to fish there in the first place.Do agree Fluro. has its benefits in clarity and abrasion resistance,do think it looses out in cost,shock absorption,willingness to accept certain knots,controlled stretch and lastly being trendily expensive(by that I hint it may not sell as well if it were sensibly priced).The mono heads could argue that Maxima is cheaper has shock absorption a plenty is equally abrasion resistant and is understated in the breaking strain dept.My jury is currently out on the debate I am quite happy to use whichever I think is appropriate at the time but I do lean heavily towards Maxima.Could also argue that 18lb Maxima will be a lot stonger than 19lb Seaguar if diameter isnt an issue.At the end of the day do we argue diameter to diameter or breaking strain to breaking strain? yet more thunks to stir grey matters. Pedro.

[ibm59]

Diameter to diameter.
Increased strength , sinkrate and stiffness for turnover.

Re initial post. Wouldn't even consider using it as a mainline off a fixed spool on cost grounds.

[Fruin]

What about co-polymer? I have no issues with the Hardy stuff to date.
I picked up a couple of spools of very reasonably priced Scierra 17lbs co-polymer and was very impressed with its strength to diameter; it is as thin as some 11lbs flurocarbons. This is now running out, so if anybody knows where I can get more, let me know please.
I like flurocarbon for the sinking properties and low visibility, but have had some failures with it that have put me off. If you have to go to the same diameter as mono to get the equivalent strength, where is the advantage?

[madkeen]

Yes Tynetraveller the tubes were lined the flourocarbon just could not cope with the strain of overhead casting and a copper tube(i think it was 23lb seagaur)I will stick with maxima ;D

[speycaster]

stapely water gds, nantwich super shanobi co polymer on offer all breaking strains £2.99 per spool 100 meteres