Salmon on the Worm!

[dunc]

Hi, I fish the Towy and the Cothi in S Wales for Salmon and Sea Trout, I fish the Fly but also spin and worm.

I would like to find out more on worm/bait fishing, because of a health problem this may be the only method that I will be able to do for most of this season.

Any hints or tips would be most helpful.

cheers, Duncan.

[Sloggi]

I fish with a guy who very occasionally worms. He is very skilled and catches fish. The method is the same as AA. He uses a bouncing-betty and spends the day saying oh, oh, oh with every bounce that could be a take

[salmondan]

sloggi said:

He is very skilled and catches fish. He uses a bouncing-betty and spends the day saying oh, oh, oh with every bounce that could be a take

It's not John Wilson is it? ;D

[kercock]

Hi Duncand welcome.there is no wrong way to fish the worm,different techniques work in different rivers. Most people like to have the worm/s moving as slowly as possible across the river which means that the weight is crucial,you will need a variety of weights in order to cover the varying speed of the water in the area you are fishing . Most people have the main line held on their trigger finger as the worm and weight work their way back to your bank,the reason being that you can feel the salmon take the worm,instantly let the line go,letting the fish take,maybe a yard or two of line ( but there are no hard and fast rule on that either,simply because a salmon can follow the worm quite some way from it's lie,take the worm and then head back to it's lie)having given the salmon some line,catch the line back on your trigger finger wait a bit and if you feel your fish,strike. that way your hook should I hope, get your fish in the scissors,then when the battle is over you can release your salmon if you wish,should you leave the worm for some time and let the fish take it's time you will most likely gut hook your salmon and the chances of it's survival are slim indeed. There are , for sure a huge variations in worm fishing methods, but I would doubt if you will find a smartarse on this site to say that there is a wrong technique in worm fishing. There may well be a fair number who say that worming is wrong. If it's legal,it aint wrong.

[Sloggi]

salmondan said:

sloggi said:

He is very skilled and catches fish. He uses a bouncing-betty and spends the day saying oh, oh, oh with every bounce that could be a take

It's not John Wilson is it? ;D

If it was, I'd chuck him in the river

[elwyman]

salmondan said:

sloggi said:

He is very skilled and catches fish. He uses a bouncing-betty and spends the day saying oh, oh, oh with every bounce that could be a take

It's not John Wilson is it? ;D

;D

If it was John Wilson it would be ho ho ho!

[dunc]

Hi all,

thanks to all the above for your replies, sorry for the delay in replying to you all but have just got back from the hospital after a knee op,

I also fish the worm as I would fish the Fly, across and down, hold the rod tip high to help bring the worm around to my bank then I leave the worm for about 30 secs then slowly inch it back , stopping now and then for about 30 secs again until it is back at my feet.

I also fish the line straight through to the hook, using a ledger stop to hold back a light drilled bullet and rubber bead plus a snap swivel so that I can add extra weight if needed. This method seems much safer for the fish as their is now way of being broken of and leaving the weight still attached to the fish.

thanks all again, Duncan.

[severnfisher]

Some variations worth thinking about:

Static ledgering with just a tiny twitch every five minutes. can work quite well in high summer low water.

Popped up worms. A variety of methods can be used to suspend the worms above the bottom even if floatfishing is banned. The wriggling action can prove irresistible.

[salmondan]

elwyman said:

If it was John Wilson it would be ho ho ho!

There would probably be a "whoops" in there too ;D.



Just as sloggi was chucking him the river ;D.

[elwyman]

;D ;D ;D

[salmosalar25lb]

Only one thing I would like to add, and that is Circle hooks should be used as they avoid deep hooking(in theory anyway),but if you hooked a coloured fish, and returned it with the hook still in, you have in effect signed its death warrant it will die a very slow death.

[dunc]

Has any one any experience of using Circle hooks for worming?

I know that the Salmon Brood stock collection last year on the Towy overseen by the EA, they allowed worming as a method but only using Circle hooks!

Dunc.

[jock]

ibrox said:

A tip I was given last year was to put some blue tack round your weight or round your swivel as a weight. You can add more or take some off, depending on the weight you need to get your worms down. Also helps if you get snagged between rocks as you just pull and the blue tack comes off and you get your hook and weight back and its a lot cheaper than losing all your lead weights. Saves a lot of hassle.

Worked a treat for me last year didn't seem to bother the fish that blue tack was bouncing past their heads.

Just a tip I thought I would share.

Mike

Many moons ago I used plasticine not only around the weight but sometimes as the weight!

Recently I started tying these conehead things, and found that in addition to my normal different hook size and standard tubes I now "had to have" plastic only tube, plastic with conehead tube, Al only, Al with conehead 1", 2" etc. Some people had two coneheads per fly, some even three, that plus the, should it be a brass, copper, silver, red, Norwegian virgin white etc conehead? got me trying to decide between buying a few dozen fly boxes or a trailer for my flies.

I settled instead for bluetac. While I still tie the odd conehead, I now tie the basic tube and if conditions require, I bluetac on a conehead. It works, it has even caught me a salmon. Can change number and colour as I wish. Still not found a source of the NVW and WG won't let me near his. Not tried it with those turbo things and never will , I have no intention of being ripped off any more than I currently am for my fishing gear.

Cheers,
Jock

[bandon]

I have caught quite a lot of salmon’ that have been lost by others fishing the worm; usually with a few feet of line and a swivel attached’ some have been very fresh’ probably been lost that day or the day before during a flood.
Some would have been lost a couple of weeks’ or months before,
_{(almosalar25lb said ),but if you hooked a coloured fish, and returned it with the hook still in, you have in effect signed its death warrant it will die a very slow death)}
If you have damaged the gills, or you have rely deep hooked the fish, and can see the stomach’ then maybe you should nock it on the head.
However it has been my experience that a fish deeply hooked will survive.
A number of fish that I have caught’ after being deep hooked’ and lost by others not only have taken my fly, but a gently pull on the trailing gut, sometimes this has come out with the just the top of the worm hook’ after it has rusted in the salmons stomach,
It is my opinion for what it’s worth that it is better to return a fish deeply hooked
rather than to kill it for the same reason.

[plotter]

I sometimes inject the worm with air using a hypodermic needle that you can get from any chemist. This lifts it off the bottom just that bit depending on how far your weight is, I also use a running ball weight so the more you tighten the line to lower down in the water the worm is, Slack line the worm floats...

[plotter]

If you have damaged the gills, or you have rely deep hooked the fish, and can see the stomach’ then maybe you should nock it on the head.

what happens if you hook a salmon before june 16th even though you were after seatrout? (you cant kill it) So you have to put it back(unfortunately this does sometimes mean a slow death)

[bandon]

Unfortunately yes this could be the case.
It has been my experience {when I fished for trout many years ago ] that a lot of salmon are lost every year’ by trout anglers, worm fishing some times after playing the fish’ until I belles up only to lose it at the last moment .
As you say some may die’ although I have never found a dead salmon that I could say died’ because of being lost by worm anglers.
Although it is pity that this happens’ salmon that die and are left in the river will contribute to nutrients’ in the river, if they survive although injured to spawn’ then there job has been done.
I have caught salmon, as I sure have others that have been damaged by seals’ and nets’ injuries that you would think would have been fatal’ alone due to blood loss but the seem to heal and survive

[salmosalar25lb]

With regards to a slow death, we as a club have formed our own hatchery, donated fish that have been deep hooked or with the hook left in, have after about 2 weeks died, autopsies were carried out on these fish and the outcome of death was the hook or the worms rotting in the stomach caused an infection and ultimately death, we now only take fish taken on the Spinner/fly or a lip hooked fish caught on a circle hook, these fish can be stripped and returned to the river to carry on with their incredible journey.

[bandon]

Acting on your experience if I was a part of a hatchery; I would do like wise; and only take what I consider the cleanest' and finest looking fish' and any with Singh’s of disease or any other illness would have to be discarded.
Autopsies have been carried out to determine the cause of death.
You say it was the hooks or the worms ‘
I would find it unlikely the worms had anything to do with there death.
As for hooks causing infection; I will take your word; that the infection was caused by the hook .
The next question would have to be; the inability of the salmon to fight this infection; could this be caused by the stress' of swimming around in a concrete tank, in close proximity to a large number of other salmon?
Some thing that in the wild would not happen' thereby giving the salmon a chance to survive .
After striping I would have thought there journey would be over .
I would be very interested if you have any information that some if any, return to sea and then return to spawn .
If this is the case, that they do return, it would further the cause of artificial stocking of rivers.
It would seem to me to be a win win situation

[salmosalar25lb]

What seemed to be the case of "the worm in the stomach" was that the hook had torn the stomach lining causing an infection that way, if there was no tear as you quite rightly say worms would not be an issue, even where the hook had come away in the gut, we found one fish with a hook that had pierced its heart,at the end of the day we all want to see more fish in the system, I think in our River there is a gradual increase in numbers of returning fish and would like to think our efforts and hard work have contributed to this.