Monteith Line

[albyn73]

I think its a must the black marker, especially at night when its dark and you cant hear a black mark clicking your top eye. A friend of mine gave me an Orvis Wonderline to try out and he had marked it with an orange marker and it was murder to see at night, before you knew where you were it was in at the reel. I have one of the full floaters and although the sleeve is a bit of a nuisance you soon get used to it, so bare with it , its not that bad.....

[castlikeaghille]

I have now been fishing with this line since last summer (have used it on about 30 fishing days). There will be a proportion of anglers who just don't like the concept of the sliding black marker and the sound it make in the rings. I hope they learn to love it.

IMO it's the best head recognition system going of all the spey lines I have used, for two main reasons:

1) It's the easiest to see in all lights and in really bright upstream light at least you can feel it when it touches the top ring - although I don't want to give the impression that is a clunky experince becasue it is not, and I don't think about it (and if yer used to the 'now then, now then, clunk click every trip' of the Mid Spey then this is like silk)

2) It allows you to be precise in a way that is very difficult with other lines, and particularly important with multi-sectioned multi-tips where the different end combinations (variable length and density) will, for most of us, require different optimum lift points on the head.

Of course you can whip on some thread, or acquasure the running line so you can feel in your hand etc. That is very true, but, having been there, I suggest that is possibly less effective because:

1) That blob (and it has to be big enough not to confuse with some grit) of acquasure has to go through all the rings on the shoot almost inevitablly reducing castability.

2) Once it goes beyond your hand (more likely with these types of line) you are back in the land of guestimating

Regardez

CLaG

[tynetraveller]

Hi Jock, I was careful- The line is fine. Thanks for the offer though. I can understand the benefits of using one, but I had an airflo floater a few years back with one that kept unlocking and sliding down the running line whilst I was fishing- That put me off the idea. I can see this one was not keen to come off!

Cheers, Simon

[macd]

williethegillie said:

tynetraveller
The vast majority of anglers love the head marker feature (and the experts from T & S in a prototype review 2 years ago). The 2 main reasons for it more than any other factor is that it is visible in poor light conditions (bright or low) and even if your totally blinded by sunlight you'll feel it when it touches the tip ring. And obviously exact and precise line lift duplication between casts.
Sorry to hear it jammed when you slid it up the running line but thats exactly what its meant to do (without glue). It looks long when its on the line but at the end of a 15ft rod pointing away from you its doesn't appear so long. Also the position the marker will self-lock into place is around 5/6ft into the 12ft rear taper. What I mean by this is if your drawing the black marker well back into the rod rings between casts especially on the 63ft or 68ft head lengths for normal river casting your losing the full weight of the head for casting. The line fishes best even on the longer 78ft head (D loop space available) when the black marker sits outside the tip ring or on it (rod & caster ability permitting). It was never intended to be drawn well down into the rod rings when casting then shot back up through them again although it will. Have you damaged your mainline with your scissors - I am cringing about you taking a marker pen & scissors to this brand new line.
There's more thought gone into this head marker and where it's positioned than people are realising. All features of this line have been thoroughly thought out. Did you have a cast with the line today upon arrival ?
If youve damaged your mainline with your scissors post it back to me and I'll replace it.
Regards
Jock
07968 145033

Jock


I bring the marker in a lot becasue i tend to handline the fly right round to my feet- make a shortish cast- let it swim- then make a proper cast using the marker as you describe.

Angler fault.

Any thoughts on the effect of this on the rod eyes- thats my main worry?

[kilravock]

I'm not sure about the exact dimensions of the Monteith marker however by a process of serendipity I discovered my own method.

My relatively new IG floater got a severe nick in it. I 'aquasured' the nick and to protect it slid a sleeve over the repair. To ensure a tight fit such that it didn't move I used one from a trout braided loop, a bit of a squeeze over the fat belly of a 10/11 but doable.

I now have a marker which I can see in daylight, hear when it touches the top eye, and at 2 cm long and highly flexible flies through the rings when it has to.

Its so unobtrusive I may even slide on some other colours so that I can use these as optimum points for various polyleaders/ shooting heads.

[ceilidh]

Ross, and Graham
Thanks for the tips about shorter, faster backstroke and increased linespeed when using the 10' tips with a 15'rod. Tried it on the trickle that was left of the Tweed yesterday and it worked fine. However, since it was purely a casting practice, rather than trying to catch a fish day, I spent the day experimenting. Using this line on my old 14' Diawa Amorphous Whisker was sheer delight, with all three head lengths, certainly for floaters and intermediates. There was not enough depth to try any of the sinkers!

Purely out of interest, I then tried it on my 12' Diawa Whisker 8/9, first with the 10' head and then the 15' one (both floaters and with a small fly) and it performed with both of these better and with far less effort than the Rio midspey 8/9 which is my normal line for this rod. This certainly makes it by far the most versatile line I have ever tried. Obviously, for practical purposes, the large System 2 reel which I normally use on the longer rods does not balance very well on the 12' one and we would not often want to fish a 10/11 line for low water Summer grilse, however, I would be interested to hear opinions (especially Jock's) about the possibility of producing a longer, thinner floating, or possibly also intermediate, 'grilse tip' for times when we find ourselves caught short (of water!)

[paulsewin]

kilravock said:

Its so unobtrusive I may even slide on some other colours so that I can use these as optimum points for various polyleaders/ shooting heads.

Eion Fairgrieve was kind enough to let me borrow a Quattro Tip line after a lesson, a few years ago.

What he did was mark the running line with a permanent marker, so that the head was in the perfect position when this mark was at the butt ring. You have no difficulty seeing this. You could adopt a number of different colours for the different applications you have in mind, once you've established the optimum position for your rod and casting style.

I don't know how successful this will be on this line because it is made from polyurethane rather than PVC. I'll have to wait for mine to arrive.

[Willie The Gillie]

I would be interested to hear opinions (especially Jock's) about the possibility of producing a longer, thinner floating, or possibly also intermediate, 'grilse tip' for times when we find ourselves caught short (of water!)[/quote]

Hi Ceilidh

I could produce a range of specialist accessories that are balanced for the 10/11 mainline for those who wanted the system to do other things at difficult times. What I don't want to do is over-complicate the line system as currently it's a great all rounder and easy to understand.
Or you could add a regular 10ft (tapered) hover or intermediate polyleader to your 63ft.68ft or 78ft full floating config which will perform well.
Regards
Jock

[ceilidh]

Thanks for the reply Jock,
I quite agree that it would be a pity to overcomplicate what is already probably the most versatile all purpose set up. I think I got carried away by the delicacy of presentation which is possible with this line!

[sagecaster]

williethegillie said:

I could produce a range of specialist accessories that are balanced for the 10/11 mainline for those who wanted the system to do other things at difficult times. What I don't want to do is over-complicate the line system as currently it's a great all rounder and easy to understand.

Regards
Jock

You might remember that I popped in on my way up to the Spey just over a week ago and purchased your line. I had a great time with it and I'm glad to say on my Sage 15'1' it performed well in most conditions.

However, I did have some problems when an upstream wind gathered strength, I just couldn't cast distance(30+)into the wind like I could with the old Rio Accelerator which I think is a heavier system.

It might be a function of the rod rather than the line but I just couldn't load the rod enough to up the line speed to cut the line into the wind. It led me to thinking that a heavier 15/25ft tip to up the line weight might be the solution, or would this simply muck up the balance of the line?

I am not a great fan of the windcutter, but it seemed to me that a windcutter like tip configuration might be the solution for me in these conditions.

Any thoughts?

[Willie The Gillie]

Hi Sagecaster
Personally I've not experienced any problems with the line at all in dealing with strong windy conditions certainly compared to most of the other normal finer front tapered lines that we all have fished before. The Rio's sheer bulk is bound to help in such bad conditions but personally again I've always disliked them.
I remember thinking of you trying out your new line on the Spey the day after you picked it up and thought - not really a day for the fly !!!
Over all we could tweak this and add that but the vast majority of users love it's performance as it is. The line will deal with 2 15ft tips (83ft) and some casters have turned it over with 2 15's and a 10ft tip (93ft) I worry that with your 15ft 1' Sage that your not already close to crippling it's lovely action even with a 78ft head ? I fished with one just before I met you and I didn't try out the 78ft head configs because I was enjoying it so much in the 68ft config range.
I am sure it would eat the Rio tips if your ever stuck in wind like that again and sure it wouldn't un-balance the line - I am not so sure if your 15ft 1' Sage would like it though ?
If you get some time one evening you should pop up to Newtyle and we can play about with the tips / configs etc.
Regards
Jock
P.S I'd love to show you the beat too

[greenbanks]

I think that its as good a line as any i have used and would recommend it to anyone fishing the Dee or any other fine Spring salmon river .Well ,for me its a really Super line, with astonishingly super turnover and very reasonably priced for a line that does what it says in the blurb,all things for all situations.Good effort Mr Jock Monteith you have a flyline to be extremely proud of.Good luck with your efforts to add more tips to the forum. ;D

[sewinangler]

After reading all the posts. I decided to purchase one.

I have yet to put it on a reel and have a cast because other committments have prevented me from doing so.

However, a friend of mine (unknowingly!) also purchased one and he phoned last night to tell me about this new wonder line.

To coin his phrase..........' it's like sh*t off a shovel!'

I'm looking forward to using mine very soon.

[sagecaster]

williethegillie said:

Hi Sagecaster
Personally I've not experienced any problems with the line at all in dealing with strong windy conditions certainly compared to most of the other normal finer front tapered lines that we all have fished before. The Rio's sheer bulk is bound to help in such bad conditions but personally again I've always disliked them.
I remember thinking of you trying out your new line on the Spey the day after you picked it up and thought - not really a day for the fly !!!
Over all we could tweak this and add that but the vast majority of users love it's performance as it is. The line will deal with 2 15ft tips (83ft) and some casters have turned it over with 2 15's and a 10ft tip (93ft) I worry that with your 15ft 1' Sage that your not already close to crippling it's lovely action even with a 78ft head ? I fished with one just before I met you and I didn't try out the 78ft head configs because I was enjoying it so much in the 68ft config range.
I am sure it would eat the Rio tips if your ever stuck in wind like that again and sure it wouldn't un-balance the line - I am not so sure if your 15ft 1' Sage would like it though ?
If you get some time one evening you should pop up to Newtyle and we can play about with the tips / configs etc.
Regards
Jock
P.S I'd love to show you the beat too

Thanks, sounds a great idea. You were right about the conditions they weren't perfect that day, and to get the extra weight i ended up going from the two inters, to the two sinkers at 78ft which helped.

Regarding the 15.1, I find the 78 a perfect length for me and I have never found heavier lines to be a problem on this rod, in the autumn I occasionally use a 13wt type 8 long shooting head , granted it does require a careful change in action!

I'm horrendously busy until the middle of May but would love to come up one windy evening and experiment! It's quite likely that you discover that its my spey casting technique that is not up to scratch!

[Willie The Gillie]

Hi Sagecaster
I look forward to your visit as experimenting with things has always been of great interest to me and I'd love a go with your Sage with the 78ft head configs I just got carried away last time with the 68 ft heads and forgot to try out the 78's - maybe we can buckle into a fish or two while your up ? - the evenings can be good late Spring on the beat.
Best Regards
Jock

[paulsewin]

springer said:

This little story might just be able to demonstrate the true versatility of this line.

On Wednesday evening last week I went up to Kelso for a cast with Eoin Fairgrieve and a couple of Tweed Gillie's. Nothing formal just playing around on his casting ponds with different rods/lines. I took the Monteith.

We all used it in various configurations on 15' rods from LPXe to the new Loop Classic and Opti's. We were standing on a platform 12" above the water which does slightly improve your distance but in all configs we were casting well over 40yds.

Then things started to get silly, we started adding tip after tip and seeing just how far this line would go and still turn over and present correctly. As the head went 68', 78', 83', 93' and ultimately 103' we dropped out leaving Eoin to go for gold.

Bearing in mind that none of the rods we had were designed for such extreme long bellied lines things got to the limit. After 93' Eoin switched over to his left shoulder (those who don't know, he is right handed) and at 103' he shot the whole line into the backing with perfect turnover Est distance 50yds

I don't expect any of us (other than the Big Spey boys ) could come close to that but it shows that line line is good and would certainly allow any level of caster to grow into this line.

The only downside I can see with it is I didn't develop it!

Following on from Springer's interesting post about what this line can do in the right hands on a big river this may be useful for anglers who fish smaller rivers with infrequent visits to larger ones.

I tried out the line on Sunday, with a friend, on a rather different range of rods.

The rods were B&W Norway 13' 7-9, B&W Powerlite 7-9 and a Loomis GLX 13' 8/9.

Using a variety of tip configurations we found that we could cast 33-34 yards, established by measuring the line left on the spool, very easily. Jock has a detailed e-mail of the trials.

The only concession we had to make with two heads being used together on the 13' rods was having the line marker down at the reel. The line marker shot through the rings effortlessly.

The heads turnover so well that I feel an additional polytip is essential for more delicate floating line work. We were faced with a very strong downstream wind which may explain the enthusiastic turnover, or it could just be that we were not used to the line.

We could single spey, double spey and snake roll easily with these rods and the line.

So if anyone else is looking for a line that is nearly a one size fits all for both 15' 10-11 rods and 13' 8/9 rods, this is as close to perfect as anything I've used. I will still use my Ian Gordon 65' head 7/8 for very low water but in anything above summer low, this line is a joy to use on the 13' rods.

[rennie]

Hail dudes,if this drivel helps any one:just had a wee throw with one of these lines and was impressed,usually use a Rio Accelerator Multi-tip which I like and while I found the Monteith line a touch light it was fine.Cast it from a Hardy Sovereign 15ft 6" rated 10 which is a strong rod, started with the marker in the tip ring and used firstly the long intermediate tip and then the short type 3 sinking tip(didn't get chance to try any others),10 big pulls of shooting line went out fine style,nice presentation coped with the wind better than my Lee Wullfs,better loops than the Rio and thats the only thing I might be able to fault,the longevity of the loops.Most of the time if I use the Rio Multi-tip its on a 16ft Powerlite rated 9/10 well I think the Monteith might be a bit light/short for this rod.Would I buy one? yes I would trouble is I am not looking at the moment,one last thought its maybe not as versatile as the Rio which has the bigger range of tips and the optional mid section and the 30ft tips,but thats not available any more.Comparing it to whats currently available,more finesse than a Mid Spey although less good with the tips,similar to the Loop but better tips and more finesse,the Airflo Multi-tips have to be close,better than a Mastery and a Windcutter isn't close. Just a few thoughts, Pedro.

[Willie The Gillie]

Hi Pedro
Glad you liked the performance in general - on the head length it officially fishes up to 78ft by using the 15ft floating tip as an extention section to then drive any one of the 4 10ft tips and (un-officially) it will perform with the same 15ft floating tip as an extention then any one of the 15ft sinking tips which provides an 83ft head length and much more. I only put the 12 applications on the box to avoid confusion and to keep the basics easily understood but with 8 tips at your disposal and a main head belly section thats up to turning them over then youv'e got the most versatile line out there. A few people who use it fish with the 15ft inter. or fast as the extention then a 10ft tip on top. On top of the 12 basic configs that are printed on the box it will do reasonably well another 15 applications that I've personally tried out and use when conditions dictate a different approach.
Regards Jock

[splash]

Jock

Managed to get a few casts in with the full floater today and it worked really well with my Loop Greyline 15ft #10 turning over a 18ft (intermediate polytip/fluorocarbon tippet combination) leader set up with ease. The head marker is easy to see and helps a lot in setting up for the next cast. I also tried it briefly on my Le Cie 14ft8 9/10 MF and it performed well into a stiff upstream wind with a left hand up (I'm right handed) single Spey.

A well thought out product at a realistic price

Splash

[macd]

I couldnt agree more splash.

I use my trusty Scott MacK 15' and even with the two heavy tips the full monty it is a dream to fish with.

I had an hour out today- went for a paper and had my first go on the full floater with the 15" floating tip. Its a fecking joy to cast.

Nae fush though.