River Tay 15 January Opening Day

[tyneandrew]

Where i fish i, personally, would listen to the recommendation of the gillie and would be happy to do as instructuted with regards to returning fish. Therefore if the gillie's genuinely believe fish need to be returned then who is the fisher to argue?

Given the simple fact that there is probably only 1 or 2 springers to, what was, every 10 or 12 - who are we to insist on wanting to kill what precious stock is left? We are largely responsible for fu@king the situation up so we need to do something about repairing it.

Put them back - every fish counts - dead fish don't spawn.

I'd love to see 80%+ catch and release on Tay springers.

[dunbar]

williegunn said:

williethegillie said:

I think it would be far better (and this is my opinion) to take it out the boards/gillies hands and make it law.

A very dangerous thing to do, once the board has given away their choice to set local recommendations it will be difficult if not impossible to get back.

What would happen if the Spring run returned to previous levels and the Board deemed that a fish could be taken, they would have to ask the Scottish Executive to change the law, then what would happen if they said no?

Giving away power to the SE especially at this time is politically very naive.

One way around this would be for the C&R regulations to be made for a limited period when they would automatically expire and could not be renewed without a fresh application from the Board to the Executive. This time limitation would serve as a safety valve so the Executive could not get carried away and over-ride the local management, and at the same time put some backbone behind the Board in legally enforcing C&R. The key would be in getting the duration period right so that it would be effective and putting in place an approriate monitoring system to see what difference it was making over time.

[kercock]

My experience on the Tay over many years in say,Dec /January when we are likely to see more dead kelts than any other time of year. I very rarely find a dead hen fish ! Of the dead hen fish,by far the majority have been killed and eaten by the Otter, the spawn lying around the remains. Very rarely do I find dead , spawned ,hen kelts. I of course come across ,at times ,plenty of dead fish at this time of year,rarely a hen though. Most people see a dead fish and assume it is a hen,however having noticed this probably ten or twelve years ago initially, I go out of my may to look for "the bodies" as I said before, rarely a hen among them. Coincidently. I rarely see grilse sized dead cock fish either ! ! !

[tyneandrew]

As a Dee fisher i have no issues AT ALL about returning fish. When buying fishing on the Dee some people were saying things like, 'you do realise you have to put them back' - this never even passed my mind or put me off in the slightest.

I personally think there is a new generation of fishers, or at least a new attitude. Older fishers want to keep fish (tradition / justifying it to there other-half, whatever), whilst relatively younger fishers, like myself, appreciate the wider pleasures of fishing (maybe controversial to 'older fishers') and knocking a fish on the head does not add to the pleasure of the overall experience. Personally my food shopping is done at Tescos - not from killing a threatened species of fish. Don't get me wrong - i do like to take the 'occasional' fish home (1 salmon last season).

Speyvalley knows a great deal about the attitude of Dee anglers over the transition from plenty to hugely reduced stocks. I think initially people left in the droves when stocks diminished and a few people turned there noses up when 100% C&R was introduced. I 'think' the attitude has quickly changed on the Dee and the river is gaining in popularity - especially now catches are slowly starting to improve.

If stocks were to come back to a healthy state then i would certainly be in favour of sensible quotos for anglers to keep a fish.

[williegunn]

Willie, Tyne Andrew is correct when C&R was first introduced to the Dee the diehard priest wielders left, some beats remained virtually un-let and the locals and not so locals got a chance to fish some of the waters that had for years been dead men's shoes. This new breed of Dee fisher was happy to pay the lower rents and return fish and through this AND other works the runs are increasing.
Now it is becoming more difficult to get lets on the Dee the Scandinavians now take many of the beats in March/April and are happy to return their fish.

The Spey would not/ could not have achieved the figures of 70% C&R without the full support of the gillies. Many of whom thought the Board did not go far enough by not asking for 100% catch and release.

The problem of Compulsory C&R is that ALL fish have to be returned even those you know will die, surely food for thought.

[scotty]

from a ghillies point of view, what would be the outcome if an angler was to keep a fish that WAS going to die?

scotty.

[tyneandrew]

When 100% C&R is enforced the idea is that any fish that HAS to be killed, because of excessive injury, is handed to the estate.

This ensures that any rod that believes he has the slightest possibility of taking a fish home because it is injured is NOT going to do so. The estate takes it.

This system should not be flexible at all imo. Even if the gillie is your bother.

[williegunn]

tyneandrew said:

When 100% C&R is enforced the idea is that any fish that HAS to be killed, because of excessive injury, is handed to the estate.

This ensures that any rod that believes he has the slightest possibility of taking a fish home because it is injured is NOT going to do so. The estate takes it.

This system should not be flexible at all imo. Even if the gillie is your bother.

Andrew, statutory catch and release is totally different from compulsory catch and release as you are well aware having fished in England prior to June 16th.

[iainjay]

I agree with Tyneandrew.I regard myself as a newcomer to salmon fishing and would take far greater pleasure releasing and watching a salmon swim off as opposed to whacking on the the head and presenting this dead thing to the missus on returning home.I now know enough that a bleeding fish has virtually no chance of surviving and would have no hesitation in despatching it as quickly as possible,so mandatory release of ALL fish is daft.
On my second ever outing on the Ericht an angler caught a nice fish spinning.At the end of the day he offered it to "the new lad"saying that it was of no use to him. I declined and asked why he hadn't returned it if it was of no use....Boy! if looks could kill.I just thought "what a tw@t"

Cheers

[Old School Tris]

Malcolm, I'll point you to the famous English Oxford dictionary for the definition of Statutory, being a law made by Act of Parliament. This makes it as compulsory as you can get.

If statutory is not compulsory, then what is the difference? And, how does this translate into catch and release

[Old School Tris]

Top marks iainjay. Why the hell kill a fish if you have no intention of using it yourself, I would have had equally harsh words

[williegunn]

oldschooltris said:

Malcolm, I'll point you to the famous English Oxford dictionary for the definition of Statutory, being a law made by Act of Parliament. This makes it as compulsory as you can get.

If statutory is not compulsory, then what is the difference? And, how does this translate into catch and release

Tris, that was the point I was trying to make, if you go to the Scottish Executive you have to go statutory..act of parliment etc.

The boards can only recommend, but the beat owners can make it compulsory on their beats.................kill a fish and you do not get back.

[williegunn]

Willie I am not an expert on the management of the Dee, but I believe that the upper proprietors formed a group a long time ago that bought out the nets men i.e. the lower proprietors; it was probably this group who pushed for the 100% C&R. Having said the above the proprietors and the board are usually fairly synonymous.

[macsalmo]

iainjay said:

I agree with Tyneandrew.I regard myself as a newcomer to salmon fishing and would take far greater pleasure releasing and watching a salmon swim off as opposed to whacking on the the head and presenting this dead thing to the missus on returning home.I now know enough that a bleeding fish has virtually no chance of surviving and would have no hesitation in despatching it as quickly as possible,so mandatory release of ALL fish is daft.
On my second ever outing on the Ericht an angler caught a nice fish spinning.At the end of the day he offered it to "the new lad"saying that it was of no use to him. I declined and asked why he hadn't returned it if it was of no use....Boy! if looks could kill.I just thought "what a tw@t"

Cheers

I totally agree with you Iain.
2 seasons ago on the Annan, one angler (if thats what you can call him) caught and killed over 50 Salmon and was heard to of said that he 'can't give them away any more' !!

Regarding the C&R, we have managed to book the first week in April on the upper Kinniard beat of the South Esk.
This we were told would have been impossible before the C&R.
So thank you to the fish chappers for giving your weeks up .

Gary

[scotty]

(off the thread a little) september 2003 my dad and i were fishing the spey at grantown and there was a couple of french guys who kept every single fish they caught, now these fish were black and i meen black, the pair did not speak any english so passing comments to them was no use, what they done with the fish i have no idea... probably gave them to where ever they were staying.

purely trophy fishing if you ask me

scotty.

[macsalmo]

williethegillie said:

If thats Tom & Jean's Marshall's beat on the South Esk your going to your in for a real treat (top notch people).

Willie, It is, we are also staying at Tom and Jean's that week, so my mouth is watering already, I can't wait . They seem really nice people.

Going back to the indiscriminate killing of fish, a couple of friends of mine fish the North Tyne at Haltwhisle. They were telling me a few tales about fishermen banging black 20lb fish on the head, saying they will do for the dog etc .

Roll on April

Gary

[tyneandrew]

Haltwhistle is on the South Tyne. Wherever they were there are plenty of idiots who fish the Tyne who have never heard of conservation or have any appreciation of what a coloured fish is.

[macsalmo]

tyneandrew said:

Haltwhistle is on the South Tyne.

oops

Your dead right in both cases Andrew and its not just on the Tyne system where the idiots are to be found .

Gary

[greenbanks]

You will find Tom and Jean super company i have fished with them a good number of times on the lower Dee and they are mad keen flyfishers with a passion for their sport.I am sure you will have a good crack with them. I believe Jean caught a lunker last year early season on the Dee at Ballogie.

[tyneandrew]

The 25lb'er in Feb just below the bridge?

Dropped the fly onto some ice and just as it fell off and started to swing - wham!