August T&S

[rpsalmon]

Dear Castslikeaghille
I'm afraid I don't know what you are talking about. You mention gentleman but you don't state who you are talking about. You suggest that I suggested that there is documentation of someone fishing spring lies with shooting heads 100 years ago, but of course I didn't state anything of the such.
You go on to exaggerate with your own contentions, that are straight out fantasy land.
Please don't try to provoke me into breaking the rules relating to other members.

Dear Willie Gunn
Yes I was talking about, in fishing terms, Mr Alexander Grant.

Looking at the list of tackle outlined, I can just imagine what I've been "missing"! One piece of tackle I'm eager to see is a zpey rod, a person I know has used one and said his back didn't give him any problems, a situation that has led him to restrict his fishing over the last five years to just two days per week. The concept of the spring in the base could make many of today's top fly rods seem run of the mill. What I'm waiting for is a really good fly reel (and spinning reel for that matter), has to be easy to use and with a drag system equivalent to that on a syncro multiplier. I've seen some interesting fly reels but none that match my requirements. Severe competition, and a willingness to experiment, has resulted in a quickly changing tackle scene. I doubt the companies involved, prepared to take losses in the game fishing sector over the short term in the hope of increasing market share, will be prepared to put up with it for long. Compared to 20 years ago when you could look up a river and tell what sort of depth someone was fishing at because of the colour of their fly line, and when other than carbon there was little real change, we are spoilt rotten these days. I never ceased to be amazed by the gullible who come up with a "new" gimmick they "discovered" in a tackle shop, still I would prefer a tackle shop got their money rather than the internet merchants.

[macd]

Malcolm, got yourself a soul mate there.

henceforth thy will be kent as the Meldrew Bros. ;D


And I feel stupid- I thought he meant grant mitchell.

[splash]

williegunn said:

rpsalmon said:

Dear Willie Gunn
You bring back so many good memories of spring fishing with your namesake on a fully sinking line, ahh it is amazing how many people have not used a fully sinking line or have never seen a 40 yard DT Wetcel 2! Have always preferred Bill Currie's/Rob Wilson's brora flies on brass wire body, magic!!

No not you will catch nothing on that set up, you now require a Jocky Monteith Multi-tip line with compensator and type 6 sinking tip coupled with a yellow orange and black temple dog on a Frodin turbo disk!!! A Brora shank, laughable.

Now where is the sarcastic smiley face?

rpsalmon said:

When I mention Grant to most people they assume I am talking about someone who led Union forces into the deep south!
It is always dangerous when people put someone on a pedestal!

I assumed you were talking about the wizzard of the Ness!!

Fantastic, after a period of insults, denial, machismo and sporting challenges, the summer of lurve eventually touches the Friendly Forum. I can go on vacation now restfully re-assured that propinquity has been re-established and the remainder of the summer will indeed be a tranquil affair. In fact it really can be summarised by the best single line from a song thread. Todd Rundgren from A Wizard a True Star "Love amongst the ugly is the most beautiful love of all" ;D

Hey Hey

Splash

[rpsalmon]

Sorry, don't understand the point.

I don't know who, or what "kent" is, "the Meldrew Bros" and "grant mitchell". Of course I know the county of Kent but such doesn't make sense in relation to the rest of the sentence. If it isn't salmon fishing related then forget it.

[macd]

wasnt meant for you sour-puss or are you misunderstanding on malcolm's behalf.

anyway, made springer laugh.

www.hingeandbracket-official.co.uk/


Pic of 2 anglers kitted out for early 20th century day on the river.

[woodcockandsewin]

I think this thread needs a little lightening up.

castlikeaghille said:

graham said:

I noticed you got a mention CLaG, I am glad I am not the only one who travels to the river with everything but the kitchen sink.

?....No that isn't me, but guilty on the Kitchen sink front anyway

...and we've even got running water to go with the kitchen sink!!!
"SINK"...isn't there another pun there...up periscope.



W&S

[sagecaster]

Hilarious thread!! ;D ;D ;D

RPS

My tuppence worth on the great GPR Balfour-Kinnear. He was in a very privileged position and fished during the halcyon days of Salmon right through the 1900's to the late 50's. He caught huge bags of fish as did many of his time. So thankfully he put it down in a book which is great reading, however although he experimented a great deal and caught fish, his techniques were nothing new.

So how do we compare what he has done with the modern day Phil Fairchild who has lain no real claim to anything other than put what he has learned down on paper, I can only see good in that. The Kola is the only place with the same prodigious numbers of fish as say the Tweed had in the twenties. As luck would have it I met recently a professional fly tyer who ties nothing but the finest traditional salmon flies and he informed me of an experiment carried out on the Varzuga where modern tackle and techniques were fished along side his traditional flies and traditional tackle. The findings were extraordinary where the modern tackle out performed the vintage by 5 fish to 1. Apparently the root cause of bad performance was found to be that the traditional dressings just were not as attractive to the fish.

If Balfour-Kinnear were alive today, as Grant, Falkus etc I have no doubt they would be all using modern tackle, spey tapers, Jocky M's, Ally's and they would still be catching more than us mere mortals!! ... and I'm sure they wouldn't be doing any better than our current day Fairchild's, Frodins or Sagecasters ;D

[rpsalmon]

Dear Sagecaster
I really find it hard to see your points. You collate a series of "facts" and mix them together in order to ... do what exactly?
I don't see anything in your statements that would tackle a point I've made. You seem to be easily led. I am sorry you are such an angry person.

[billytheghillie]

all these authors you talk about good or bad, but tell me have the fish read these books! ;D ;D

[williegunn]

sagecaster said:

As luck would have it I met recently a professional fly tyer who ties nothing but the finest traditional salmon flies and he informed me of an experiment carried out on the Varzuga where modern tackle and techniques were fished along side his traditional flies and traditional tackle. The findings were extraordinary where the modern tackle out performed the vintage by 5 fish to 1. Apparently the root cause of bad performance was found to be that the traditional dressings just were not as attractive to the fish.

I might suggest your assumption is incorrect.

Most people fishing modern tackle would cover more fish than some one fishing vintage tackle so perhaps the fly made no differance?

Maybe they could try next year fishing modern tackle and vintage flies and vintage tackle and mordern flies.....then come back.

[rpsalmon]

The actual idea of comparing old tackle to new is interesting, but to have value we would need full details. For instance, did the anglers using vintage tackle really know how to use it and did they have much practice, did they really have old rods & silk lines, did they have gut (now there is a limitation), how were the flies dressed, most of the vintage flies I see are nothing like the vintage flies actually used by experienced fishermen. Hooks, many of the single hooks produced today are poor for salmon fishing, many of the hooks surviving from yesteryear actually survived because nobody wanted them! What tactics did they use? Keeping a kingfisher silk fly line floating (above the equivalent of a DT 8) for long periods is difficult and nearly impossible when you get to equivalent of DT10. If they used carbon rods and large singles, I can see that it would be difficult to hook many fish due to strength needed for penetration.

[salmoseeker]

Nothing changes here it seems; new guy shares his views and the usual suspects remind me why I don't visit this place of small minds.

Congrats to JKBoy who actually posts a positive line relating the source article to his fishing.

Thanks to Willie G who continues to amuse and talk with intelligence.

Springer I've told you before you need to get out more and preferably with a rod in your hand (but not your own). :/

Clag we have a PM agreement about being nice so I'll just say I admire your literary style but you should avoid any tendency towards smugness

Macd, do you ever say anything which is even once positive or original? It's 4 months since I was here and nothing changes. You just talk snide bollocks.

RPSalmon thanks!

My take on it is, as most say; to fish well you read the water, you don't spook the fish, you dingle the fly in front of his nose as far as you can and you match the fly size to conditions. You also should fish, if you can, when there are salmon in the river. You should also be willing to try different things. Tight lines.

[elwyman]

Just got around to reading this thread, having read PF's article last night.

I suspect the sarcastic tone of RPS's first post has upset a few people, but I must admit that PF's August article wasn't particularly earth shattering for me either - some good basic common sense advice for beginners perhaps, but nothing new really.

The July article was more interesting, gave me some food for thought anyway.

His written style portays PF as being a modest and likeable chap, so welcome to the forum RPS, but be careful who you slag off!

[elwyman]

salmoseeker said:

My take on it is, as most say; to fish well you read the water, you don't spook the fish, you dingle the fly in front of his nose as far as you can and you match the fly size to conditions. You also should fish, if you can, when there are salmon in the river. You should also be willing to try different things. Tight lines.

Excellent advice salmoseeker, particularly: " You also should fish, if you can, when there are salmon in the river."

Very relevant to salmon fishing in Wales. ;D

[minitube]

rpsalmon and Willie Gunn,

Rpsalmon mentioned Laming in one of his posts. Is there a body of written work or anything produced in print by Laming? Percy Laming or Lamming? I have heard it said that he is considered to be the person most likely to have caught the most salmon on the fly ever. Can anyone shed any light on the man?

[splash]

minitube said:

rpsalmon and Willie Gunn,

Rpsalmon mentioned Laming in one of his posts. Is there a body of written work or anything produced in print by Laming? Percy Laming or Lamming? I have heard it said that he is considered to be the person most likely to have caught the most salmon on the fly ever. Can anyone shed any light on the man?

Its Percy Laming. WG, and his alter ego RPsalmon, probably knew him personally and can advise further but this may help for starters;

www.flyanglersonline.com/features/canada/can82.html

[stuart]

Interesting description of the Dee in the article

"the Aberdeenshire Dee in the west of Scotland"

[jimthefish]

rpsalmon said:

In view of your remarks, as a basis for training yourself in salmon fishing I suggest you read, think about, learn and then put into practice everything Graesser, Balfour-Kinnear, LRN Gray, Grant, Crossley, Crossfield, Pashley, Taverner, McLaren, Calderwood & Mallock ever wrote.

Peter D Malloch of Perth would be rolling in his grave if he saw his name spelt that way.

Malcom I am surprised you missed that one :)

[macd]

salmoseeker said:

Nothing changes here it seems; new guy shares his views and the usual suspects remind me why I don't visit this place of small minds.

Congrats to JKBoy who actually posts a positive line relating the source article to his fishing.

Thanks to Willie G who continues to amuse and talk with intelligence.

Springer I've told you before you need to get out more and preferably with a rod in your hand (but not your own). :/

Clag we have a PM agreement about being nice so I'll just say I admire your literary style but you should avoid any tendency towards smugness

Macd, do you ever say anything which is even once positive or original? It's 4 months since I was here and nothing changes. You just talk snide bollocks.

RPSalmon thanks!

My take on it is, as most say; to fish well you read the water, you don't spook the fish, you dingle the fly in front of his nose as far as you can and you match the fly size to conditions. You also should fish, if you can, when there are salmon in the river. You should also be willing to try different things. Tight lines.

I have apologised privately to salmoseeker for spoiling his enjoyment and contributing to his 4-month exile and I do so unreservedly to anyone else who has been chased off the forum by my posts. I didnt realise I had such power over grown ups.

But as he chose to rebuke me publicly, instead of bringing his concerns to me privately, I will do likewise, following his lead.

Here is a positive affirmation for you SS: Get stuffed. Who the f*ck do you think you are to attempt to censor my contributions by trying to shame me into shutting up?


By the way its 'type snide bollocks', not ‘talk snide bollocks’. Do you have to talk out loud when you type?

GIRUY

[rpsalmon]

Firstly, my first posting on this thread wasn't sarcastic.

Secondly, looking at my copy of Jock Scott's "Fine & Far Off" I see that he states "Laming", looking at my collection of his letters to "The Field" his name is also stated at "Laming", I also have some of his letters on headed notepaper and they are marked "Laming". I haven't seen any reference to him being called "Lamming" but if there is a reference to such then I suggest it is a mistake.

Thirdly, thank you for correcting my mistake over the spelling of "Malloch".

Many of the persons mentioned as part of a suggested reading list did not actually write a book themselves, though many contributed quite heavily to publications such as "The Field", "Fishing Gazette" etc. These publications are available via the British Library in London or National Library of Scotland in Edinburgh. Many of the articles of 100 years or more ago make you realise how expert many of the anglers were, and how poor many of the contributions to modern magazines are.

I'll try and start a new topic on this website, regarding the creation of an up to date all method salmon fishing book, or even two, one a practical guide and the other for advancing anglers.