tay salmon fishing

[akflyrod]

tuesday tay fishing report , a total of a huge three fish,
the amount of beats with a large number of rods ,spread over the system, the fishing is just crap, close these rivers for 5 years give the fish a chance,

[williegunn]

What about the massive unemplyment that a move like that would cause? Surely it would be better to sort out the marine problems that seem to be affecting all Scotland's rivers.

[tyneandrew]

The Tay system is PARTICULARLY worrying, i would not be against total catch and release for 5 years - at least.

Marine problems need attention, but who really knows what is causing it???

[salar76]

akflyrod said:

tuesday tay fishing report , a total of a huge three fish,
the amount of beats with a large number of rods ,spread over the system, the fishing is just crap, close these rivers for 5 years give the fish a chance,

Statistics are an interesting thing - they rarely give us a real idea of what is going on with the river from afar. Maybe you didn't check the river levels, but I doubt the rising river helped the anglers cause yesterday.

[sagecaster]

Poor catches are a reflection of the health of the river. I think the root of the problem is that the Tay has had a fundamental issue regarding poor juvenile stocking rates over the last 25 years. Its quite simple, there are now too few fish at spawning to restock it's entire catchment.

Granted we do need to sort out marine survival, but the Tay has still to put its house in order regarding achieving good juvenile stocking rates throughout its catchment before we can lay the blame at the door of poor marine survival for lamentably low runs of fish.

[tynetraveller]

It seems to be a really poor year this year-few fish, lots of small fish. The problems are surely at sea- The Spey fish I have seen have nearly all been on the thin side for Springers but so have many others from around the UK. The North Sea is in a terrible state of deleted stocks across the whole fish food chain and I expect so are some of the northern feeding zones. But even if the problems are at sea, we need to protect what we can control and maximise spawners. The Dee can sell rods as a catch and release river, the other big three should certainly think about it. I write this as someone who does take the odd fish myself, but if the rules are put in place I will gladly follow them.

Small grilse are one thing, but I don't want to fish in the spring for weeks on end to finally connect to that magical, elusive springer, only to find that it looks like a kelt and weighs 4-5lbs. That really could hit the river owners if the trend continues.

[weed]

I agree with Tynetraveller that the problem of marine life in the sea must be having a huge impact. As a regular sea angler I have to say for the last few years the catches have been extremely poor and the fish that I have been catching seem to be getting smaller and smaller and of poorer quality, regular marks either produce infrequently or not at all.
Sea beds which once flourished with marine life have been destroyed by the trawling and once it is gone you cannot put it back.
Sandeels etc all seem to be on the decline.

[madkeen]

The river has had rain today so we will see if it brings in more fish
or they aren't coming.

[charlieh]

It's surely unwise to make a judgement on the basis of one season, let alone part of one season. The Tay catches appear to have been good last year. Fishtay shows 2006 catches significantly above the 5 year average - admittedly some of this may be as a result of new beats coming into the scheme, but a random sample of individual beat catches up and down the river appear to confirm that 2006 was a goodish season.

Making a snap judgement based on one year might have led people to advocate relaxing the C&R regulations after the excellent 2004 season. Similarly, after the almost total collapse of the grilse runs in 1999, anyone operating on the basis you suggest would have had everyone closing their rivers. Neither would have been the right decision, IMO.

I agree with those who have expressed worries about the state of the North Sea - I was one of a number of people who reported seeing a guillemot well inland on an east coast river last autumn, and I can't help thinking that this may have indicated a disastrous lack of food. But decisions to relax or increase fishing restrictions must be made on the basis of a trend, not a single year's catches, which may simply be an aberration from the trend. There will always be good and bad years.

[tyneandrew]

Can i just clarify 2006 rod catches DO NOT look good because of new beats coming onto fish Scotland. 5 year averages (and previous years catches) are altered accordingly when a new beat signs up - otherwise the data would be meaningless.

Agree with your points there Charlie - lets see how things shape up at the end of the season. Who knows, we might have tremendous summer salmon and grilse runs.

[akflyrod]

charlie i was not judging between this year or last year, they are all the same. if you want to compare, do so with your best year out of the last 5 againt the best year of say 30 yrs ago.
the uk have let everything go, some say no water, i remember watching salmon come up on a tide with little water to cover there back but they were there in numbers, the world famous kenai rvr if the run is late , fish and game close the rvr until the run arives, how can othere countrys run and manage there rivers so that each year produces record breaking salmon,
willie the unemployment will come sooner or later , what would be the better , a few years away or a depleted river with no employment ever again
as i am sure there are a lot of different views on this topic, and somebody somewere needs to pay attention before it is too late, just my thoughts.

[akflyrod]

wg i was thinking about your comment on the unemployment,
instead of the land owners taking, taking ,taking, if it was put into play that the employed were to hold there jobs, and work on the beats, over several years egtting the river back to its full wealth , after all they sit on there millions and put very little back in, whats needed is some good goverment action, with a policy ( give back to the river or loose the rights to run it)

[elwyman]

Stracathro on S Esk has had 1 fish this April, over 50 fish were caught last April. O fish were caught in April 02 &03!

Water levels have been on the low side throughout April, that must be a major factor in low catches everywhere.

[Sloggi]

elwyman said:

Water levels have been on the low side throughout April, that must be a major factor in low catches everywhere.

I don't think so. For example, the water on the Dee has been lowish but not low enough to stop fish running and being active. The temp is also fine for running fish.

The reason for low catches is simply fewer fish. This is most likely due to the condition of the sea and of the collapsing eco system in our rivers. Landowners have a lot to answer for regarding farming and forestry methods over the last 100 years.

[elwyman]

The Tweed hasn't had a spate since mid-March, and it looks like April catches will struggle to reach 50% of the 5-year average:

www.fishtweed.co.uk/pages/riverlevels3.asp?dom=FishTweed

[salmonking]

elwyman said:

The Tweed hasn't had a spate since mid-March, and it looks like April catches will struggle to reach 50% of the 5-year average:

www.fishtweed.co.uk/pages/riverlevels3.asp?dom=FishTweed

And when a spate arrives its gone in no time,i remember when spates would drop gradually and the water would fish well
for days on end,land drainage being as it is now,the extra water
goes in too quickly creating a short dirty spate,gone are the days when my local used to run that lovely beery color for days on end.

[sagecaster]

sloggi said:

The reason for low catches is simply fewer fish. This is most likely due to the condition of the sea and of the collapsing eco system in our rivers. Landowners have a lot to answer for regarding farming and forestry methods over the last 100 years.

As a landowner I would like to point out that 97% of water is consumed in domestic and industrial supply,.... and consumption is still on the increase. Far greater volumes of water are being siphoned off the head waters to meet demand than ever before, hence poor sustained water levels in a good deal of our rivers. Granted our farming and especially forestry technology of the 70's and early 80's has done serious damage to our river catchment drainage and biodiversity, however regulation introduced in the late 80's and early 90's ensured that these harmful techniques and technologies were discarded. In general farming is now cleaner and kinder to the environment than it's been in the last 50 years.

The tweed for example is in cleaner and better shape now than it has been since the industrial revolution, and yet some of the most prolific runs of fish occured in the 50's and 60's when the river was almost impassable in bits and probably at it's most polluted. Make sense of that.

[williegunn]

akflyrod said:

wg i was thinking about your comment on the unemployment,
instead of the land owners taking, taking ,taking, if it was put into play that the employed were to hold there jobs, and work on the beats, over several years egtting the river back to its full wealth , after all they sit on there millions and put very little back in, whats needed is some good goverment action, with a policy ( give back to the river or loose the rights to run it)

As usual it is the big bad land owners that cause all the problems.
Are they to subsidise the hotel workers? The local garages, filling stations? The bakeries, distilleries? The list is endless.

If you think that the Scottish Executive could make a better job of running the rivers than the present river boards you are even more stupid than your posts suggest.

[stuart]

One of the problems apart from beeing the warmest and driest April I can remember is the fact that the winter was so mild and hence much less snow in the hills than there used to be. The snow melt in the past would have kept the rivers at a much higher level than we are seeing this year.

[akflyrod]

wg u being an x dentist should know the meaning of- bite this, dont call me stupid again,
i think your overall attitude on this topic sucks, but i guess as long as all rods are booked up 4 u ,that is all that matters eh,
so the issue at hand, lack of fish, has an endless list of finger pointing, not just at land owners, in the us a body was formed ( fish & game) to take the welfare of land and marine, people whom care, in the later 90s the great lakes became infested with zebra mussels, action was taken , now lake ontario has a healthy stock of trout & salmon
the river lagan in belfast once boasted huge runs of salmon early 1900s wiped out completly , it took 100 years to get atlantic salmon running in the river,
georges banks in the atlantic almost wiped out ,with over fishing, and that is were the atlantic salmon fed waiting to migrate back to the great salmon rivers in nh & maine,
fish and game stepped in , us goverment closed the banks to all fishing, fishing fleets were purchased from long time fishermen and fish stocks both salt and fresh water returned to there wonder days, all rivers in the uk are in a decline ,as we all remember the days gone bye, of better salmon fishing, at this rated atlantic salmon will be on the endangered species list, and many will be unemployed, so why does it have to reach that stage , before anyone takes notice,
and wg if you dont have anything helpfull to say,-- then say nothing at all